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Old 12-01-2016, 06:17   #31
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

I have some news for you scientist the proper thing to do is when there is an abundance of electricity lower the thermostat and add round aluminium cylindrical containers filled with a mixture of barley and hops and about 6% alcohol to the frig, later with the energy levels of the battery's and the people aboard lowering start to remove the containers at 15 minute intervals until supplies are exhausted OR just keep the frig closed and talk about how wonderful it is to save energy. Stay thirsty my friend!
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:26   #32
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

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Debate withstanding....

IF.... One were to subscribe to the eutectic solution theory... Wouldn't something actually useful be a better medium???

I'm talking say... something like martini olives...


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Old 12-01-2016, 06:29   #33
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

In all seriousness, about the best way to truly save energy, is fix any air leaks you may have and increase your insulation, decrease box size or , increase energy production.
There just ain't no free lunch
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:02   #34
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

After reading this complete thread on ballasting or storing heat absorbing energy it seems the basis thermodynamic facts are in some cases distorted. Ice has been used to store heat absorbing energy for thousands of years but water must first be frozen by a separate energy source. For one pound of water at standard day temperatures to go through a phase change to ice a number of BTUs of heat must be removed from it and disposed of. It requires one Btu per pound of water per degree to lower water temperature to 33 degrees F and an additional 144 Btu to complete water phase change to ice. After the change from water to ice only of a Btu per pound per degree can be stored. To test these facts of water as a cold holdover system yourself place one pound of water in a plastic container with a thermometer inside. If this one pound container is placed in a 4 to 6 degree F freezer it will freeze in 12 hours because of its small size.

Your test containers ice temperature after 12 hours should be down to less than 10 degrees. Place container somewhere at room temperature and watch thermometer rise within a short time to temp of 32 degrees consuming the very small amount of energy stores after ice was solid. Unlike other liquid eutectics water/ice temperature will remain at 32 degrees as long as there is any amount of ice in the container.
Any container whether holding plate or a gallon plastic container ice made from water alone will never provide a box temperature colder than 40 degrees.

To reach box temperatures lower than frozen water, mixtures of chemicals called eutectics can be mixed to form a colder desired freeze point. The blue ice packs sold in supermarkets have a gel eutectic solution that freezes at a temperature just below 32 degrees. There are companies on the web like Tundra that sell low temperature cold packs. Ice and cold packs work well in coolers where 40 to 60 degree temperatures are adequate but not recommended for a cruising boat life style. The biggest problem with ice packs is energy and time required to freeze them.

There are those who would like to convince you that holding plate refrigeration is overall a better performer than conventional evaporator system refrigeration, this is not true. Holding plates serve but one purpose and that is to store surplus energy if it is available from an alternative energy sources, wind, sun, water, shore power or an extra large refrigeration compressor. Small 12/24 volt compressors like the Danfoss BD models without alternative energy producing any surplus energy unless box and plates are very small holding plates are a poor investment.
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Old 13-01-2016, 21:56   #35
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

Reminds me of a story I had placed several bottles of water in the freezer overnight the next morning as I was about to take them out and place them into the cooler i noticed that they were not frozen????I grabbed one of the bottles tossed it in cooler looked at it and it was solid ice WTF? I watched carefully as I grabbed the 2nd bottle and it changed from water to ice before I could get it to the cooler WOW! excitedly I run get the wife
Watch this I say the 3rd bottle changes to ice as it goes into the cooler Her response SO
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Old 14-01-2016, 05:42   #36
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

It is super cooling- if the water is fairly pure and cooled slowly without disturbance, it will go below its freezing point without a phase change. Then when it is disturbed (putting it in the cooler) it undergoes a phase change instantly. You would also get the same effect by dropping in something as a nucleation point, like a small seed, etc.

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Old 14-01-2016, 06:26   #37
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

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And ribeyes for the freezer.

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Old 14-01-2016, 06:40   #38
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

At least we don't have to worry about Rich Boren at CruiseRO muscling in on that business - he'd go broke consuming his inventory...

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Old 14-01-2016, 07:58   #39
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
It is super cooling- if the water is fairly pure and cooled slowly without disturbance, it will go below its freezing point without a phase change. Then when it is disturbed (putting it in the cooler) it undergoes a phase change instantly. You would also get the same effect by dropping in something as a nucleation point, like a small seed, etc.

Mark

That is how I know my beer is perfect, take it out of the fridge and "thump" it, and it freezes. It's a soft freeze though so you can drink it right away, plus I think the water freezes out, leaving a higher alcohol content in the remaining liquid
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Old 14-01-2016, 08:01   #40
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

I do have the wife believing that a case of beer in the bottom of the fridge makes the fridge work better, all that thermal mass you know

Plus it makes it easier for her to reach stuff if it's sitting on top of the case of beer. She is even remembering to buy beer when it get a little depleted
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Old 14-01-2016, 08:37   #41
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

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I do have the wife believing that a case of beer in the bottom of the fridge makes the fridge work better, all that thermal mass you know
Seems the chance of backfire on that is extremely dangerous. Wait till she realizes that you taking one of them out to drink reduces the thermal mass and decides that is a bad thing and that it would better for you to dink one of the warm beers in the storage locker instead.
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Old 29-01-2016, 09:51   #42
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Re: Freezer "ballast" and eutectic solutions question

DON'T do as I did today and demand (ask for) a spending freeze then check the frig and realize that there was no beer
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