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Old 27-05-2018, 09:36   #1
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Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Not sure I should be in the Lagoon forum for this question....

Background: Was moving boat from winter place to summer place. About 70mi. Checked it out a week ago, tightened up everything, no water anywhere. Came back a week later to move. About 3 mi out, sails up, engines on, doing 8kts, I figured, lets check things out again. Port hull bilge, nothing. Stb hull, holy crap, bilge is filled! Not a little, but the whole bilge, which on my cat is the false keels.

Automatic pump is not on! I have a switch on the panel that will turn on the bilge, fortunately, it clears it in about 10 minutes. It doesn't seem like any water is coming in from any seacocks, so we continue on.

There is some residual water in the bilge that the pump can't suck out, see pics, there is a strainer that prevents the hose from being right on the bottom.

I have had issues in the past where I hear a beeping noise (when the bilge pump comes on, it beeps at the panel and light goes on) for about 20 secs. This is because the water sloshes forward when the bow goes down, raises the float switch and then goes off when the water drains back when the bow lifts into the next wave. It seems like I can sort of lock the switch down into a detent by pressing it forward, but not sure? I don't think this should be the case.

Anyway, the switch did not come automatically, I stuck a coat hanger down and cleared away a ton of crap.

Later I flipped switch back and forth with a hanger, and was able to get it come on, but still not sure it is working reliably, which I need it to!

I want to replace it, but can't reach it! Need some advice as how to get to this, so maybe this is lagoon specific? See pics. switch is the bottom of false keep accessed thru about 1' sq hole. Also, assuming on wiring, the 2 red wires going into the pump, one is going to manual switch, other is going to float switch?

Finally, what I am pretty sure caused the leak was that I had not retightened the hose clamps on the water intake for the head. Hose was on the barbs on seacock, but not tightened. I think a week ago I had pumped toilet about 100 plus strokes to flush out antifeeze and check its working. Plus going 8 kts for 30 minutes didn't help. Anyway, after tightening them, I did not see anymore water in the bilge for the next 40 mi.
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Old 27-05-2018, 09:44   #2
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

do put it in the Lagoon groupe.
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Old 27-05-2018, 14:48   #3
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

I have a 83' wood boat with 5 water tight bulkheads and 6 separate bilge areas. So with this boat and a lifetime on or near the water, I've used dozens of pumps and switches. The only type of bilge switch I trust now is the vertical tube. I haven't seen a big difference in brands. The flipper type float hasn't worked well since they took out the mercury. I won't buy the pumps with a built in switch because the sensor always fails. Usually within a year. (Except for Lovett, but are hard to find.)
This switch is about $150 on ebay.
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Old 27-05-2018, 16:08   #4
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Go with a water witch, attach it to a hose or something you can bring up in case you need to clean it (the maintenance it might need if very oily). Thats it. It jut works.

https://waterwitchinc.com
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Old 27-05-2018, 16:47   #5
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

My bilge sump is very deep, can't even reach to the bottom of it lying on my stomach on the cabin sole. The float switch is on a fiberglass batten that extends down into the bilge, with a fastener and base up near the sole. To service/clean the switch I just unscrew the fastener and pull the batten up. That looks like what you need.

Flapper (i.e. Rule) float switches are crap. Get rid of it. Even the super switches suck. If you can't have confidence in a well maintained float switch, then what's the point?

I have a Water Witch and am very happy with it, but have not had it in service long enough to know how reliable/durable it is. Reports are that the 20amp version is much more reliable than the 10amp version.

The Ultra switch gets the best overall points for reliability but they are pricy. Without a doubt, if my Water Witch fails I'll go straight to the Ultra.
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Old 27-05-2018, 16:56   #6
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
My bilge sump is very deep, can't even reach to the bottom of it lying on my stomach on the cabin sole. The float switch is on a fiberglass batten that extends down into the bilge, with a fastener and base up near the sole. To service/clean the switch I just unscrew the fastener and pull the batten up. That looks like what you need.

Flapper (i.e. Rule) float switches are crap. Get rid of it. Even the super switches suck. If you can't have confidence in a well maintained float switch, then what's the point?

I have a Water Witch and am very happy with it, but have not had it in service long enough to know how reliable/durable it is. Reports are that the 20amp version is much more reliable than the 10amp version.

The Ultra switch gets the best overall points for reliability but they are pricy. Without a doubt, if my Water Witch fails I'll go straight to the Ultra.


I just came off a voyage on a full keel 53 foot boat (draft 7.5 feet) that had a very large and very deep engine room and bilge, so deep there would be great difficulty reaching the bilge pump at the bottom.

The owner had his bilge pump Water Witch attached to the bottom of a 6-7 foot ( I think) long, 1/2 inch diameter stainless pipe, mounted to the side of the bilge "well" so he could pull up the Water Witch to clean it or service it. The switch was on some small stainless platform or plate at the bottom end of the pipe.
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Old 27-05-2018, 17:12   #7
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Our primary bilge switch is mounted well above water height and is activated by a PVC tube with a ball float on the bottom pushing up through another PVC tube and lifting the still dry float switch.

That one is a "rule" and has lasted forever as it remains dry.
The 3 additional pumps have "sure bail" floats as recommended by several working trawler owners and sparkies who have and work on boats.

Other side of the world to lepke, but I do like the look of, but have never seen, that tube switch here.
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Old 27-05-2018, 17:22   #8
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Another vote for replacing it with an Ultra on a long stick that screws to the hatch frame. Unscrew the screw and pull it up to clean and check. Be very careful that switch wire splices are secured to the stick far above the bilge water. Classic place to create galvanic corrosion.
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:00   #9
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Our bilge is deep and narrow-to make the bilge pumps accessable I made a 1/2" PVC pipe "tree" and mounted the primary and backup bilge pumps, the high water alarm, and the 2 bilge pump switches on that "tree". I gave up on the float switches several years ago, and have used the electronic type ever since. We've had the best luck with the "Quick" switch. And they work in water, or oily water equally well. We pull it once every year or 2 to clean, replace as needed, and then reinstall----works good! I would not trust a float switch ever!
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:30   #10
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Quote: "The owner had his bilge pump Water Witch attached to the bottom of a 6-7 foot ( I think) long, 1/2 inch diameter stainless pipe, mounted to the side of the bilge "well" so he could pull up the Water Witch to clean it or service it. The switch was on some small stainless platform or plate at the bottom end of the pipe."

Exactly! In my puny 30-footer, the pump AND switch (a grotty Rule flipper switch) both sit on an identical arrangement, though a "roll yer own" built of wood. Cheap, simple and convenient. The whole issue can be lifted out for cleaning of it and the bilge generally.

When aboard, I inspect the bilge as part of the daily general inspection routine and I verify by means of a stick with a hook on it that the flipper works. Provided that this is done - and logged - and shows no ingress of water, the risk of a leak while she is unattended, is, IMO, very, very little.

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Old 28-05-2018, 10:23   #11
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

The consensus remains that the rocker-type float switches are garbage and alternatives exist. I like the PVC "tree" idea, because I also like "staged" pumps.
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Old 28-05-2018, 10:45   #12
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

I have put my upper and lower pumps on two separate stick/trees as there are a lot of hoses and wires associated with the two pumps. Pulling them out together would be challenging.

My higher pump is a 3700GPH monster on a 1 1/2" hose. Because it is six inches higher neither it or it's switch normally gets wet so it rarely needs checking.

Also, connect a loud alarm to your upper pump. If it's running, you want to know.
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Old 28-05-2018, 10:55   #13
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
The consensus remains that the rocker-type float switches are garbage and alternatives exist. I like the PVC "tree" idea, because I also like "staged" pumps.
Some types are better than others.
The trick is not to get them wet.

If you have a tree or stick as some describe to lift them out of the water for cleaning you can do as i described earlier and not have them in the water at all.
Quote:
. Our primary bilge switch is mounted well above water height and is activated by a PVC tube with a ball float on the bottom pushing up through another PVC tube and lifting the still dry float switch.

No water or crap around float switch and wires - no problems
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Old 28-05-2018, 12:33   #14
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

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Also, connect a loud alarm to your upper pump. If it's running, you want to know.

We were sitting around eating supper the other day, when our high water alarm - secondary bilge pump went off.
Our primary switch was off, I guess maybe the wife knocked it off cleaning and it had been off for no telling how long.
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Old 28-05-2018, 13:46   #15
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Re: Float Switch replacement for bilge pump

Sometimes there is a place where one can mount a switch completely out of the bilge and its poor electrical environment, and just have a plastic rod with clearance all around it guided within a PVC tube. The plastic rod (can be epoxy saturated wood) is connected to a float. The float from a toilet cistern is ideal. Mount it in the same way as do some fuel gauges on large diesel tanks. Nothing electrical is within, everything is above fuel or water level, nothing is able to cause a spark, and nothing like moisture or condensed spilled fuel to contaminate the switch contacts.

Having said all that, the flapper switches used on most bilge pumps need to be exercised a lot to be reliable--which exercise they do not usually get in a bilge. I used the cheaper Rule ones in my shower sump--and got years of service from them, because they were used every day at least once, and frequently during each shower..

I agree that a mercury relay is the best switch of all, 100% reliable, and still available from electrical suppliers as a switch, but you will need use the home-made float and rod and mount the relay out of the bilge. The bilge is NO place for switches anyway--no matter how easily they can be mounted there. The only things I like in a bilge that are electrical in any way are the inevitable submersible sealed pumps--and gas detector sensors.
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