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Old 19-06-2006, 21:40   #16
Bob Norson
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I was fooling around with one of our advertisers and I used the line..."yeah, were ugly but we're cheap!" He's run a full page ever since!

OK.. yeah, the Engel should do OK except the insulation is not great in the portable units. If you can design a cabinent that allows for increase in insulation without hindering ventilation it wiill reduce your battery/production requirements.

I agree on those "three way" units... meant for camper vans but junk on a boat.

Tri? what design are you doing? As a matter of fact we are very seriously considering a farrier. If I can't buy or build a cat big enough to produce the paper on, then the farrier might be good for reducing my maintenace time by virtue of hauling it out and rinsing with fresh water between usues.. f9 or even a 31??

Cheers

bob
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Old 19-06-2006, 21:51   #17
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We bought a Piver Lodestar a while back. It is a bare hull, but is rapidly taking shape. Not quite the rocket ship the Farrier is but it should be comfortable. A couple of your neighbors over there, Rogin and Linda Taylor, founded Reefurl while cruising on their cat. Not enough room for manufacturing, but they were able to run the business while cruising.
Good on the box design, I have researched it pretty thoroughly, and agree that that is the best way to improve the efficiency of any refer system.
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Old 20-06-2006, 07:26   #18
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Where do you place these portable units? Most of the applications I have knowlege of set them in the cockpit. I'm concerned that they may heat the cabin if left inside.
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Old 20-06-2006, 16:23   #19
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Kai Nui..there must be a million of those Pivers still running around. The problem with them here is the reletively new issue of marina berth space. Moorings are getting less common all the time and tri's beam is tough go for a marina. Perfectly sound design though, even 40 or so years gone. Yeah, a box for insulation is helpful and of course....CHEAP! Another little advantage the waico has over Engel... they come with a little fan to cool the hot side so not as prone to issues of cramped space or poor ventilation.

The Taylors are still making the furlers, not flash but cheap. I don't think they have a boat now but live at a nudist resort they own called "Taylorwood" on Conway road not far from Airlie Beach.

Pura Vida.. greetings! The cockpit can be a pretty hostile environment for something like that. We live in the tropics and my Engel was built into the galley. If it raised the ambient temperature in the galley I figured it would take more juice to run a fan to vent the hot side than it would to just run the fridge a little harder/longer. (don't go there!) The way I organised mine the air for cooling the hot side was drafted (passively) up from the bilge so in effect was water cooled. In any case if a boat is poorly ventilated in the tropics it will be miserable no matter what and if it is well ventilated it won't make any difference.
What we are talking about is a portable unit in a more or less permenent instalation. Your application on a 27 footer may have different priorities.

Cheers

Bob
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Old 20-06-2006, 19:35   #20
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Yep, slip space is an issue. Finding a place is no problem, but affording it is another story.
I was, and I guess, still am, a distributer for the Reefurl units. I would not run any other furler myself, but that is another thread. As for Taylorwood, I have seen it on their site. THey no longer have a boat, but have fond memories from when they used to be cruisers
My thought on where to put the portable fridge is in the lazerette. This should be well protected, and not blow hot air into the main saloon. Not sure what the C&C has in the way of space. I do not know how well the Engel would hold up to being on deck Besides the obvious, I do not know if the motor has any protection from moisture at all.
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Old 21-06-2006, 06:48   #21
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Although it appears that y'all have come to the proper conclusion of the fact that the Koolatron style coolers are worthless, let me add another nail to the coffin. The boat I have came with one from the manufacturer. I made the mistake of trusting them to have tested their design. Luckily we were only going out for 5 days, so I packed my 5 day with food, and 20#'s of ice. I put all my drinks in the powered cooler with 15#'s of ice, turned it on and slid it into the cabinet it lived in. By the next morning, it had eaten my battery dead (it and the anchor light were turned on at 8:30 and I was up at 6:00 that was all that was on that battery) and melted all 15#'s of ice.

The 5 day cooler was frozen like a rock!

I measured the draw of the cooler and it is 8 amps! Then I realized that the problem is not only the current draw, but the fact that it is heating the nearly airtight box it is trying to cool as the manufacturer did not design any airflow for the exhaust from it.

I now have 2, 5 day coolers and am looking to build a fridge. Thanks for providing the draw of the different types. Very enlightening.
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Old 21-06-2006, 09:57   #22
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Bob, Kai, Knotty et al, Thanks for the thoughts on my application. The C&C 27 is pretty well organized inside but does not have a quarterberth. So access fromo the inside means using saloon space or in the vberth which is storage for me in any case. I'll take a look at the laz but the engine tends to heat that space. Doghouse points to one problem that may occur, and that is raising the ambient temps inside the boat and causing the system to work against itself (the source of my question). C&C were not designed as tropical boats so ventilation is a problem. I do plan on needing something on my Bahama trip. One thing I like about the idea is I can take it off the boat. Also I only need to use it when I have something that will spoil. thanks all
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Old 21-06-2006, 12:30   #23
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Okay, last summer I saw an old Norcold unit (looks identical to the Engel) sitting discarded in the marina, I left it not wanting to inadvertently thieve. weeks later it was moved to sitting next to the dumpster. This would not do. I felt like whatever was wrong I could fix it and like the idea of doing refer work while cruising.

Anyway, I took it home and plugged it in and froze a cup of water solid. I found the DC circuit didnt work after buying a new DC cable for it. The Engel instructions said to never hook it to an inverter but it was free so what the heck. Recently we moved aboard in the yard and since my electrical rebuild is now functional I plugged the Norcold in and it worked on the inverted AC just fine.

The past couple days I have been testing it's consumption in this manner. So far it looks like an average of 3amps of draw in ambient temps of between 60 and 75 degrees. It kicks on every 15 or 20 minutes for 120 seconds or so on the 2nd lowest setting. I assume on freeze it would consume more.

anyway I tried to take it apart to fix the DC circuit but it seemed impossible to take it apart without damaging the steel box. The insulation is not so impressive but I havent built a box yet. I like the idea of ripping the guts out and making a well insulated box for them to decrease cycling. This thing is ancient and still runs like a champ. The DC circuit seems like it should be easy to repair and even if it isnt I doubt I am losing much efficiency since 3A is pretty good consumption. We had planned on going without frefrigeration and probably still will but as an available luxury for when we are running the engine or just feel like wasting some power for cold beers it could be a good solution for us.

So far the thing has cost us $45 for a replacement DC cable ;-)

I'll post elsewhere about my impending power woes ;-)

Cheers,
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Old 21-06-2006, 13:10   #24
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Old 21-06-2006, 21:52   #25
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AdamY, don't you just love those deals? Sounds like a great unit.
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Old 21-06-2006, 22:30   #26
Bob Norson
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I seem to be mixing with the right crowd here!! buncha cheap ----s!

Every time I come up with a short cut or cost savings I figure I'm closer to cruiser God or Budda or...?!

Pura Vida...one more point to ad, the little waico I have uses a small fan like the ones in computers to pull air through the hot side of the unit out the side of the case. I wonder if some cheap flexible ducting could route the hot air out of your cabin making an internal installation feasable??

just a thought

cheers

Bob
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Old 22-06-2006, 04:30   #27
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The ducting idea sounds plausable. I used a small solar panel and computer fan to move air from my car on sunny days. This hould not be too hard to work out. Thanks again.
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Old 22-06-2006, 06:39   #28
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Rick,

I will be more cautious in my wording of my opinions. Thank you for the clear explanation of your opinion and recomendations and sincere appology.
I think we have the same opinion as I use one in my truck to keep my soda cool when making long trips, but they are not designed to be a marine reefer. (A subject I am taking up with Hunter.)

John - AKA Doghouse (Not where I live but what I have)
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