Does your electric head bowl slowly refill once you have emptied?

[EvilRabbit]

Our Vetus toilet bowl slowly refills even after you empty it. Spoke to Vetus and they acknowledge the issue and say they will replace the motor with a new model that solves the issue. I then spoke to a builder who said that all electric toilets refill slowly?! I can't believe that to be true. Does yours? What brand are you using?

[peghall]

It's not true that all toilets refill slowly after a flush. Understandable that boat builder would think so, though...theyr'e the worst sanitation system plumbers on the planet! I'm not sure that Vetus gave you correct info either...Vetus doesn't make their toilets, theirs are just their private label brand name so their tech support may not be any more knowledgeable than that of a couple of other companies who don't make theirs either.

I have a few questions that need answers before I can offer any:

Does the toilet use sea water or is a model that uses pressurized fresh water?

If it's a sea water toilet, is the bowl above the waterline, or is any part of it below the waterline? Is the bowl refilling with clean water via the intake? Or is water running back into the bowl after a flush?

If it's running back, does the toilet discharge line run uphill? When, if ever was the joker valve replaced?

[EvilRabbit]

Originally Posted by peghall

It's not true that all toilets refill slowly after a flush. Understandable that boat builder would think so, though...theyr'e the worst sanitation system plumbers on the planet! I'm not sure that Vetus gave you correct info either...Vetus doesn't make their toilets, theirs are just their private label brand name so their tech support may not be any more knowledgeable than that of a couple of other companies who don't make theirs either.

I have a few questions that need answers before I can offer any:

Does the toilet use sea water or is a model that uses pressurized fresh water?

If it's a sea water toilet, is the bowl above the waterline, or is any part of it below the waterline? Is the bowl refilling with clean water via the intake? Or is water running back into the bowl after a flush?

If it's running back, does the toilet discharge line run uphill? When, if ever was the joker valve replaced?

Hi Peggie

Funny that I just bought your book!

It's a fresh water system and water takes a few mins to slowly fill - not a quick fill. They are newly installed, but sat unused on the boat during the 1 year long build. So only used now in last 3 weeks. If I hit the 'empty bowl' button it clears the bowl fine and all seems ok, but 15mins or so later and it's full again. The blackwater tank sits higher than the bowl. Nothing has been replaced - yet

[peghall]

Ok...It's a fresh water toilet. That rules out the toilet motor 'cuz the the motor has nothing to do with bringing in flush water to a toilet that uses pressurized flush water. That's controlled by a solenoid valve wired to the flush button or panel that works kinda like a opening and closing a faucet. I'm guessing that you either have a bad one or it needs adjusting (assuming it IS adjustable). If you can give me a model name/# for the toilet I'll be able to download the manual for it.

I appreciate your buying my book...hope you'll find it helpful!

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
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http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

[HopCar]

Is the bowl refilling with clean water or black water? Could be black water. You did say the holding tank is higher than the bowl.

Clean water it's the solenoid valve as Peggie says.
Black water is the joker valve and a badly designed system.

[EvilRabbit]

Originally Posted by peghall

Ok...It's a fresh water toilet. That rules out the toilet motor 'cuz the the motor has nothing to do with bringing in flush water to a toilet that uses pressurized flush water. That's controlled by a solenoid valve wired to the flush button or panel that works kinda like a opening and closing a faucet. I'm guessing that you either have a bad one or it needs adjusting (assuming it IS adjustable). If you can give me a model name/# for the toilet I'll be able to download the manual for it.

I appreciate your buying my book...hope you'll find it helpful!

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
--------
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

Thing is, it's the same on both toilets. I will be at the boat tomorrow to confirm the model number, but believe it's this: http://www.vetus.com/media/magentominds/sasdocument/20150729130437_0.pdf

[peghall]

Just to clarify...we ARE talking about clean flush water that's coming in through the back of the bowl? This isn't black water (bowl contents you just flushed) returning to the bowl?

[YachtBroker]

In most cases I have found this is the joker valve softening up and letting back in the water from the pressure in the hose and tank. Especially if you have a high tank and it's a gravity discharge tank. Change joker valve and I bet it stops. Don't believe you have to "rebuild" the whole head. My raritan head the joker valve comes in a kit for $30 with way more parts than I need but at least then I have those as spares.

[peghall]

In most cases I have found this is the joker valve softening up and letting back in the water from the pressure in the hose and tank.

First, replacing the joker valve is not the cure for every problem a marine toilet can have.

Second...there shouldn't BE any pressure in the hose and tank. If there is, it means that the tank vent is blocked, or the head discharge line is blocked by sea water mineral buildup. Changing the joker valve won't cure either of those problems.

Nor is changing the joker valve more than a temporary "bandaid" to keep water in a tank discharge line tank discharge line that runs uphill from running back downhill again--as water wants to do. A brand new joker valve will only block it completely until the toilet has been flushed enough times to spread the slit even a little.

And finally...the joker valve is in the toilet DISCHARGE fitting. Replacing it won't do a thing if the flush water INTAKE is source of the problem.

Peggie
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by EvilRabbit

Our Vetus toilet bowl slowly refills even after you empty it. Spoke to Vetus and they acknowledge the issue and say they will replace the motor with a new model that solves the issue. I then spoke to a builder who said that all electric toilets refill slowly?! I can't believe that to be true. Does yours? What brand are you using?

I have 4 SeaEra freshwater flush toilets and they all do this. It raises the water level about 4" in the bowl. I think it's normal and allows the poo to go into water. The supply hose goes up a wall and has a vacuum break before going to the toilet so that should be the source of the water.

[EvilRabbit]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I have 4 SeaEra freshwater flush toilets and they all do this. It raises the water level about 4" in the bowl. I think it's normal and allows the poo to go into water. The supply hose goes up a wall and has a vacuum break before going to the toilet so that should be the source of the water.

Flush or empty? When flushing there is definitely a refill into the bowl. 'Emptying' should drain all the water out the bowl and keep it drained. Will be at the boat today to grab my manuals and check the setup.

[peter57]

Mine does the same. I purchased the boat with an electric head (Jabsco- Saniloo), it is salt water flush, only it takes 12 hours to get to the brim to over flow, so it is PITA and close sea cocks.

[peghall]

Originally Posted by peter57

Mine does the same. I purchased the boat with an electric head (Jabsco- Saniloo), it is salt water flush, only it takes 12 hours to get to the brim to over flow, so it is PITA and close sea cocks.

If it's filling with sea water, replacing the joker valve will NOT solve this problem! Your toilet wasn't installed correctly. What's happening is water outside the boat is seeking it's own level INside the boat. It will rise in the bowl to the boat's waterline. If that's above the top of the bowl, water will overflow the bowl and--if no one is aboard while this is happening, keep rising till it sinks the boat. It's easy and inexpensive to fix: install a vented loop in the toilet intake line. It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL...which on most sailboats puts it 2-3 FEET above the bowl.

If your toilet is a 37010 model, the bowl sits on the "works"...a short piece of hose connects it to a fitting on the back of the bowl. (See photo) That's where the vented loop goes. Obviously you'll have to replace that hose with enough to mount the loop where it belongs.

If your toilet is a model that doesn't have the short piece of connecting hose, the loop has to go in the line from the thru-hull to the pump...in which case you'll also need the Jabsco solenoid valve. (see photo)...it's wired to the flush button.

See the installation instructions for your toilet for illustrations and more detail. You'll find 'em on the Jabsco site Jabsco electric toilets

I'd also like to recommend a little more light reading that you should find useful:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Bo...dp/1892399784/

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[EvilRabbit]

Originally Posted by peghall

Just to clarify...we ARE talking about clean flush water that's coming in through the back of the bowl? This isn't black water (bowl contents you just flushed) returning to the bowl?

It seems to be a little bit of whatever was in the bowl. So yeah, if we empty a bowl with some pee, some of that pee water is returning.

This is the system:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n4t5daits...%20PM.jpg?dl=0

[peghall]

There is a vacuum break, but it's the solenoid valle that turns the flow of flush water on and off...kinda like a faucet.

This isn't "normal" for all electric toilets...it's a function of gravity and water's pesky insistence on running downhill. If the solenoid valve or if there's also vented loop (vacuum breaker) in the intake is above the bowl, whatever water is left in the line when the flush button is released will continue to run downhill into the bowl....the higher it is, the more water will be left in the line to run into the bowl.

Pedal operated VacuFlush toilets have a water valve on the back of the bowl that isn't electric. The pedal operates it. Because the water valve is on the bowl, less than a tablespoon of water is left to run into the bowl.