Do I need a holding tank? (legally speaking)

[Tayana42]

In Southern California we have a holding tank and we use it. Population is high, harbors and anchorages are crowded.

We use pump out stations when we can (even knowing that shoreside treatment facilities often overflow when it rains). Mostly, we pump out 3.5 miles off shore where the natural processes of the ocean can take care of breaking it down.

I still wonder about the wisdom of collecting 35 gallons of waste and dumping it all at once vs no holding tank and dumping one flush at a time as we used to do before holding tanks. I agree that laws intended for cruise ships dumping waste from thousands of people make no sense for pleasure boats.


S/V B'Shert

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

W're planning on departing California in October and cruising the Pacific. I've done research and I'm still not very clear on holding tank requirements. Is it a recommendation or a requirement? What are the potential consequences for not having one?

Thank you

****PLEASE *** PLEASE *** PLEASE*** REFRAIN FROM LECTURING ON WHETHER IT'S ETHICALLY/MORALLY/CORTEOUS etc. TO USE A HOLDING TANK My request is information on the LEGAL requirements. Thanks!

It's not about morality etc. When you are anchored in a nice clean harbor with other boats for a few days, everyone around you does not want to take their morning swim with your "baby ruths" floating around!
If you have a small holding tank, you can wait until you are on your way and out of harbor to dump your crap!

[laika]

Transmittendan and kenomac, I don't disagree with your angles. Nature is resilient and individually we're tiny.

But the oceans are far from pristine and the world is not big enough for billions of consumers who don't see the collective impact of their actions. This guy does a pretty good job of breaking down the issues confronting the ocean,s today: Jeremy Jackson: How we wrecked the ocean | TED Talk | TED.com

Anyway, all this a bit off topic..
I agree, cruisers mindfully dumping overboard is not a real problem to focus on. I think Mike Oreilly has it right.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by laika

Transmittendan and kenomac, I don't disagree with your angles. Nature is resilient and individually we're tiny.

But the oceans are far from pristine and the world is not big enough for billions of consumers who don't see the collective impact of their actions. This guy does a pretty good job of breaking down the issues confronting the ocean,s today: Jeremy Jackson: How we wrecked the ocean | TED Talk | TED.com

Anyway, all this a bit off topic..
I agree, cruisers mindfully dumping overboard is not a real problem to focus on. I think Mike Oreilly has it right.

Americans need to sail other places away from American waters with American rules and the warped American education system and see for themselves that the oceans are not totally polluted and free of fish like they've been taught in school... And the oceans and anchorages don't look like Los Angeles harbor or other major American harbors that they're familiar with.

The self importance and the projection of the American perception onto the rest of the world is false... I encourage people to get out and see for themselves.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

The ocean is teeming with bacteria with or without our contribution. Cruiser's waste is much less than even a drop in a bucket. It's more akin to a drop in a chlorinated swimming pool. There are places with poor tidal flow that should never be sullied but these are rare and usually obvious to cruisers.

Agreed. Again, I don't understand why this is so difficult. In anchorages or areas of high usage and low flow, dumping your poop is going to lead to problems. The opposite is equally true; in anchorages or areas where there is good flow and/or few other people, it no problem.

It is a historic problem that humans behave like we can't possibly affect something as large as forest, lakes, mountains, ecosystems, whole species, oceans and the atmosphere. We're living with the reality that our species IS altering global systems all over the place. But that doesn't mean everything we do has an impact. Nor does it mean we can continue to ignore the impacts we are having.

In this simple case the fact is that if you don't concentrate your poop, your impact on the environment can easily be unmeasurable. But if you are in an area where lots of people are pooping, and it can be concentrated through lack of flow, then don't toss it over the side.

[captain58sailin]

Agreed Mike, you wouldn't want to swim in the harbor at Pape'ete, as a simple courtesy you shouldn't be discharging in an anchorage, regardless of the legality.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We just arrived minutes ago at this beautiful Sardinian anchorage, and I have no concerns about the water quality, knowing full well that most likely none of the boats here have holding tanks,

I was visiting Olbia in October last year. Beautiful little seaside town with yacht club and marina with public docks. I had the privilege of being driven between islands in a Navy launch for a few days. The water is spectacular and I have added this area to my cruising bucket list even though pump out stations are not easily found.

Once in a while my job is pretty nice. Makes up for the weeks in some dusty hot places.

[laika]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Americans need to sail other places away from American waters

You had me with hello

[YoloSF]

Thanks to everyone who helped.

Everyone else, you're too predictable. I'll leave you with my initial post request:

"****PLEASE *** PLEASE *** PLEASE*** REFRAIN FROM LECTURING ON WHETHER IT'S ETHICALLY/MORALLY/CORTEOUS etc. TO USE A HOLDING TANK My request is information on the LEGAL requirements. Thanks!"

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

Thanks to everyone who helped.

Everyone else, you're too predictable. I'll leave you with my initial post request:

"****PLEASE *** PLEASE *** PLEASE*** REFRAIN FROM LECTURING ON WHETHER IT'S ETHICALLY/MORALLY/CORTEOUS etc. TO USE A HOLDING TANK My request is information on the LEGAL requirements. Thanks!"

I'm always amused by people who insist that they somehow own or control discussions on open forums, or indeed in real life. Discussions online, or in the real world, are not "owned" by any one person. A discussion moves and evolves beyond the initial question, comment or query. It is an interactive and evolving format.

If you want an interview, then call someone up, or email them directly. When you come to a discussion forum, you get (drum roll please...) a discussion.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by tinkrman69

I'm a poor man. 16 to 20000 a year and I can afford a hoiding tank, altho I bought a composting head instead. I did the study and installed it myself. I also only have a 7th grade US education. Anybody can do it. All's it takes is a desire to do it. The information is there for the asking.

I drove a cab in Key West a while back. one fare asked me where was a safe place to swim - in regards that Higgs beach had a sign up warning of e-coli levels in the water - I told him about 8 miles south. He said "how can that be? the Island is only 3 miles wide." I said " there are 'bout 40,000 toilets on this 3 by 5 mile pros rock. do the math. the conversation went on and I told him that when I was a kid here you could see detail at 30 foot depths. Now you can't see detail at ten feet. He said it didn't matter as it wouldn't be completely destroyed before he was dead. I asked him " what about your grandchildren?" he said that would be their problem.

Think about the next person that has to clean up your mess. just because you don't get caught or can't see it, doesn't mean it's not wrong. If I don't want someone to do it to me, then why do it to someone else? Everyone pays for self-centeredness. This may sound cruel and hurtful, but is it? Sometimes the truth hurts.

I'll gladly swim near your boat but not the OP.

We decided to live on a boat in part because we'd experienced bad neighbours.

Much easier to up anchor than sell a house.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Geoff S.]

Ahoy, All;

This is perhaps off-topic, but a couple keyword searches didn't turn up anything else close: what about greywater?

I am right this moment finishing a complete re-design of all of Diva's plumbing systems. We have fitted her with blackwater holding tanks, y-valved to sluice out the head stuff when at sea, but the question suddenly came up as to whether the grey water from showers and sinks are subject to similar scrutiny when in NDZs. Do we need to be able to demonstrate to a hypothetical badge-wearer that that water is being pumped into the holding tanks when in port? If so, I have some seriously complicated engineering to figure out to make that happen. I'm hoping that since the subject of Greywater didn't come up once in the Poo discussion, that this is essentially moot. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Oh, btw, this is all anticipatory for the potential of someday visiting US waters; I'm quite happy keeping her in Trini as a home base, and I'm pretty sure nobody (even the French) in the Carib gives two hoots about any of this.

For any pals here who have been following my 13-year refit saga, things are coming together to actually splash her for real by this time next year...yikes, hope I still remember how to sail...

Cheers!
Geoff

[YoloSF]

For those wondering where to poop if you don't have holding tanks and don't want to get fined or "contaminate", I decided not to install the holding tank because it's not worth the $4000 to us. We'll poop in deep water and let it flow out naturally, and in protected areas like anchorages, we'll "poop" in a bucket: http://amzn.to/1I9ebd7 and these sealable bags:

They'll also be readily available in case of inspections so we avoid fines: http://amzn.to/1MaUzqD

Cheap and simple solution!

[tinkrman69]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

For those wondering where to poop if you don't have holding tanks and don't want to get fined or "contaminate", I decided not to install the holding tank because it's not worth the $4000 to us. We'll poop in deep water and let it flow out naturally, and in protected areas like anchorages, we'll "poop" in a bucket: http://amzn.to/1I9ebd7 and these sealable bags:

They'll also be readily available in case of inspections so we avoid fines: http://amzn.to/1MaUzqD

Cheap and simple solution!

a man wrote a story back in 1843. his name was Dickens and the story was, A Christmas Carol. Dose it ring any bells with your views?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

For those wondering where to poop if you don't have holding tanks and don't want to get fined or "contaminate", I decided not to install the holding tank because it's not worth the $4000 to us. We'll poop in deep water and let it flow out naturally, and in protected areas like anchorages, we'll "poop" in a bucket: http://amzn.to/1I9ebd7 and these sealable bags:

They'll also be readily available in case of inspections so we avoid fines: Amazon.com: Reliance Products Double Doodie Toilet Waste Bags (6-Pack)

Cheap and simple solution!

I'd suggest you read the whole thread. Though it really depends on where you are. But having bags with poop in them won't get you out of trouble in areas where they will be looking for a holding tank.