Disconnecting & connecting propane appliance

[nigel1]

I think that soldered gas connections are OK for domestic installations (in the UK), but not for boats (vibration issues), where compression fittings are preferred.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I think your right with the soldering comment but your entirely wrong with your 'is never copper any longer' ive just had a gas fitter expect my vessel and give me a list of everything i need to do to bring it up to scratch. My non lagged copper has to be replaced with 'lagged 3/8 copper'.

And what do you propose instead of copper? I wasn't given any options.

No joints are allowed inside the boat aside from the connection to the appliance, so this eliminates any Tee's and copper is frowned upon due to work hardening and fatigue cracks. the normal thing to use for plumbing the propane is this:

FireBoy - Xintex LPG Propane Gas Supply Line Hose

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by nigel1

I think that soldered gas connections are OK for domestic installations (in the UK), but not for boats (vibration issues), where compression fittings are preferred.

Soldered gas connections are not allowed in residential applications,and I've never seen one in commercial applications either! its all compression fittings!!

at least not in North America

[nigel1]

I did say (in the UK), and for sure, I know there are soldered connections on the gas line in my house, installed by a government regulated fitter.
However, the question is about gas installations on boats.

[donradcliffe]

Toss out those harbor freight adjustable wrenches and get some real tools. Your hose end (it ain't copper tube) fittings are either tapered pipe (MIP/NPT) or flare. They are definitely right hand thread. If they are tapered pipe, they have goo in them and take a bit of grunt to break loose.

[meridian28]

I'd be interested in info on all these deaths from propane.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by pcmm

you should be able to break the fitting loose, just make sure that you support the appliance end while you break the connection loose.

+1

Unbelievable advise going on here. Follow the above advice. Use open ended wrenches instead of adjustable wrenches and more muscle.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by nigel1

I did say (in the UK), and for sure, I know there are soldered connections on the gas line in my house, installed by a government regulated fitter.
However, the question is about gas installations on boats.

same applies to boats. no soldered joints. at least not if you want to pass ABYC. CE approval is another story. I've seen some really scary stuff on luxury CE approved yachts! scariest thing I've seen is manual gas valves right below the stove! Thats defenitly an ABYC fail and really just a common sense fail! if you have to shut the gas off in an emergency you genereally don't want to be near or under the stove at the time! that's why the solenoid switch is usually a little bit away from the stove!

Personally I I was buying a new boat and someone boasted that it was CE approved, I'd want a hefty discount so that I could fix all the CE approved stuff properly!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by pcmm

same applies to boats. no soldered joints. at least not if you want to pass ABYC. CE approval is another story. I've seen some really scary stuff on luxury CE approved yachts! scariest thing I've seen is manual gas valves right below the stove! Thats defenitly an ABYC fail and really just a common sense fail! if you have to shut the gas off in an emergency you genereally don't want to be near or under the stove at the time! that's why the solenoid switch is usually a little bit away from the stove!

Personally I I was buying a new boat and someone boasted that it was CE approved, I'd want a hefty discount so that I could fix all the CE approved stuff properly!

You wont like my boat then.. 6mm micro bore...

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

Make very sure you are trying to turn the correct way. Right hand threads have a normal nut. Left hand threaded nuts should have a line machined around the nut.

This is the best picture of a fitting I could find that shows the line Darylat mentioned:



And this is the last hose I bought, because my appliance (stove) had a LH connection:

http://www.amazon.com/PROPANE-HOSE-A...GGS39NWNMJCGB5

Things get put together all kinds of ways depending on where, when, and who, so it pays to check.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by pcmm

scariest thing I've seen is manual gas valves right below the stove!

The cool thing about codes is every country is different. British gas code requires a manual valve near the stove, but not directly over it. ABYC is a lovely code that assumes everything will always work perfect.

I liked the British idea of a manual valve so much that I installed one near my stove with easy access. I also have a gas solenoid and a sniffer. But solenoids fail open and closed, as do regulators. The manual valve rated at 600 psi wog is just a smart idea.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by pcmm

No joints are allowed inside the boat aside from the connection to the appliance, so this eliminates any Tee's and copper is frowned upon due to work hardening and fatigue cracks. the normal thing to use for plumbing the propane is this:

FireBoy - Xintex LPG Propane Gas Supply Line Hose

Entirely dependent on the country and it's standards, I've just had a brand new install from bottle to stove fitted 6 weeks ago.

Vessel was Canadian built and fitted with Force 10 3 burner stove/oven and the hose in your link, neither met Australian standards so the whole lot was junked.

New Force 10 built to Australian standards was fitted along with associated regulator/shutoff solenoid and gas detector/sniffers plus Aus approved stainless steel cylinders......

......piped together with 3/8" Lagged copper (annealed/bendable Quality) tube manufactured to Australian Standard AS1432 fitted as per AS/NZS 5601-1-2013 standards in a single run, no joints or in-line connectors.

Got the Gas System Compliance Certificate (Form PGA734 (QLD)) sitting in front of me.

If you want to have your vessel registered with a gas system installed here, then the above is what you will have to have done.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

The cool thing about codes and every country is different. British gas code requires a manual valve near the stove, but not directly over it. ABYC is a lovely code that assumes everything will always work perfect.

I liked the British idea of a manual valve so much that I installed one near my stove with easy access. I also have a gas solenoid and a sniffer. But solenoids fail open and closed, as do regulators. The manual valve rated at 600 psi wog is just a smart idea.

so does Australia.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by cruisersfarm

...... re flare and re nut and screw it back on using pipe thread sealant.

Wrong. Flare fittings do not need any sealant. The threads are not the sealing surface on flare fittings.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Entirely dependent on the country and it's standards, I've just had a brand new install from bottle to stove fitted 6 weeks ago.

Vessel was Canadian built and fitted with Force 10 3 burner stove/oven and the hose in your link, neither met Australian standards so the whole lot was junked.

New Force 10 built to Australian standards was fitted along with associated regulator/shutoff solenoid and gas detector/sniffers plus Aus approved stainless steel cylinders......

......piped together with 3/8" Lagged copper (annealed/bendable Quality) tube manufactured to Australian Standard AS1432 fitted as per AS/NZS 5601-1-2013 standards in a single run, no joints or in-line connectors.

Got the Gas System Compliance Certificate (Form PGA734 (QLD)) sitting in front of me.

If you want to have your vessel registered with a gas system installed here, then the above is what you will have to have done.

I have a copy of the same standards in paper form posted to me a few weeks ago after seeking advice on what I have to do to ensure my system is meets the standards. You can have 'joins' but any joins 'must' be accessible and serviceable. I could not see anything requiring stainless steel cylinders

The frustrating thing is that whilst all of Australia and New Zealand use the same standards, the various state authorities then seem to add their own interpretation to them. In Tasmania, it's the Mines Department, and the gas fitter gets them to come and inspect the gas fitout before issuing the approval.