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Old 08-03-2014, 17:09   #76
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Depends on how big your CO2 tank is. A 2 pound or smaller one would not be a problem. 5 pounds could be a problem depending on interior volume and if the boat was closed up for rain (for example). 10 pounds would really be a problem on most boats. While a very slow leak is not a problem, a ruptured hose could be a problem.

You have to consider that the inside concentration of Co2 could already be around 1% or higher, in an enclosed boat. Every breath you take emits Co2.

If your using a 2 pound or even a 5 pound cylinder, you might be safe enough. But with 10 pounds why even take that chance.

Sort of like having propane stored in the cabin. Its completely safe as long as everything works perfect. But we live in an imperfect world and failures due occur with surprising frequency. Gee even with propane safety awareness, boats still blow up every year.

Why take that chance. A foot pump or day tank offers similar function with zero risk of co2 poisoning. But you do what you think is best.
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Old 08-03-2014, 17:25   #77
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Is it early to give a Darwin Award?
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Old 08-03-2014, 17:47   #78
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Let's clarify a bit here.

The danger is that over 7% (really 10%) co2 concentration will
occur on your boat FROM A TANK FAILURE. What is the risk that a tank releases its co2 suddenly in a way that you don't notice, and it fills your boat with 10% co2

This is what the EPA says about co2, note that up to 4% can be good for you.
I have a dozen or so scuba tanks in the garage. Two of them have emptied themselves in the last year. (One was a nice 15/60 mix so i was a bit miffed)

It happens.
Say you are off the boat having dinner, and while gone a burst disk lets go, or a regulator seal fails. Would make a fair noise, but you are not there to hear. You come back, check things out on deck, hit your bunk. Its a long goodnight...

For rebreathers, anything above 0.5% is considered unsafe, and at 2% you should be off the loop. 4% is just silly in this context, I suspect where it is used is in a medical setting where you are trying to trigger a patient to breathe. (actually its partial pressure we care about, but at the surface its the same thing).

Oh - I like deepish wrecks, a rebreather works well here so I can afford rich helium mixes. I have been diving various units over 10 years, so think Ive a reasonable grasp of the risks and benefits.

Mike
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Old 08-03-2014, 19:00   #79
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pirate Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

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You are killing us Jack! This is another in a goodly string of ideas you've had that ran against the herd thinking of the rest of us sheeple. ...
I say again, several pages later, how can you continue to argue against ALL the prevailing logic and experience?

Yes, Galileo was correct, but in the immortal paraphrased words of Sen Lloyd Bentsen (TX): you, sir, are not Galileo.

I am surprised you are still clinging to being right here.

I think Darwin Award ceremonies start April 1st.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:58   #80
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pirate Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

I offer a short apology for the harsh comment above. While I haven't changed my thinking, it's not my job to call you out Jack. I like innovative thinking ... just seems like here, you are "pushing the river."

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Old 09-03-2014, 06:18   #81
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

if you are going to go down the route of having pressurised water tanks i would reccomend installing a small Steam Engine on the boat.

steam pressure can be used for many different uses as well ie

hot water

generating electricity

condensing sea water to make fresh

propulsion of the vesssel.

espresso coffemaker

fog horn

cabin heating

etc way better than co2!,and safe to breath
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:32   #82
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

1. CNG is available here in the US, at least on San Francisco Bay and the Delta. Svend's carries the replacement tanks. We have CNG on our boat and I'm just down the road from Svend's. They also sell the tanks to the marina in Rio Vista. A friend made the refill adapters and he goes to a CNG filling station. It is harder to find elsewhere in the country and if every going away from the US, I'd have to switch to propane.

2. Water pumping: after 26 years I replaced the plumbing hoses and hot water heater on my boat. The OEM Shurflo pump is still doing just fine. A lot of the concern about pumps has arisen these days because of the new flow sensor ones, made by both Jabsco and Shurflo. The Jabscos for sure don't work worth squat - the new Catalina 355 skippers are having heaps of trouble with them. When I leave the boat and also before I go to sleep, I turn the breaker off and open a faucet, relieving the pressure. Not so hard.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:40   #83
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I appreciate your concern and information.
Are the soda fountains with Co2 tanks in restaurants too dangerous
and should be banned? How many deaths have been blamed on them?
Can we compare this to Propane tanks which are common on boats?

I can use compressed air instead of Co2, or Nitrogen tanks or SCUBA tanks,
but Co2 is a much lower pressure tank, 900psi vs 3000psi and thus the tanks are much lighter and less expensive and of course...I already have them. These old Coke kegs are stainless steel are tough as nails, and have lasted decades and will be around long after 5 gallon plastic jugs are leaking and disposed of. I will probably buy a few more, and keep all my fresh water in them.

I will have a water maker too, that will dispense its product into the kegs.
I do have an idea to make and sell ice cream, and rootbeer floats would be a nice addition to the offering, if I could only make carbonated rootbeer somehow...
Its the combination of an inert gas in a confined space where people will be living and sleeping that is the primary risk. Much different risk set than a soda fountain in your kitchen.

This issue alone would rule out this option for me personally. Not to mention the extra system complexity over a 12V electric pump system.



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Old 09-03-2014, 12:44   #84
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Its the combination of an inert gas in a confined space where people will be living and sleeping that is the primary risk. Much different risk set than a soda fountain in your kitchen.

This issue alone would rule out this option for me personally. Not to mention the extra system complexity over a 12V electric pump system.



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Its also worth pointing out that gas is considered an elastic medium whereas water is inelastic.

When you have a water leak in a pressurised system the pressure throughout the system drops instantly. In a gas pressurised system pressure bleeds of slowly making it more difficult to detect a leak.

This characteristic requires more complex systems to monitor gas charged systems.

End of safety engineering rant...

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Old 09-03-2014, 14:42   #85
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

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Originally Posted by Badsanta View Post
Is it early to give a Darwin Award?

Nominations are open now, however the award itself is only won if the person is successful in his attempt to remove himself from the gene pool.

The fact that he's still arguing, and will probably do this no matter how much factual info he is given, bodes well for your nomination.
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Old 09-03-2014, 14:49   #86
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
if you are going to go down the route of having pressurised water tanks i would reccomend installing a small Steam Engine on the boat.

steam pressure can be used for many different uses as well ie

hot water

generating electricity

condensing sea water to make fresh

propulsion of the vesssel.

espresso coffemaker

fog horn

cabin heating

etc way better than co2!,and safe to breath
I know that was semi tongue in cheek, but seriously, all of those are logical uses for steam onboard a boat. That's how they do it on a nuke sub, and the Navy didn't spend billions on the concept without having a good idea how well it would work out.

They also used compressed air (up to 4500 psi) to operate some valves and for buoyancy, but they never used CO2 for anything except fire suppression and everyone on board had to don EABs or SCBAs when a fire broke out.
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Old 09-03-2014, 15:47   #87
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
if you are going to go down the route of having pressurised water tanks i would reccomend installing a small Steam Engine on the boat.

steam pressure can be used for many different uses as well ie

hot water

generating electricity

condensing sea water to make fresh

propulsion of the vesssel.

espresso coffemaker

fog horn

cabin heating

etc way better than co2!,and safe to breath
nice idea ...

the possibilities are truly endless

donkey engine for warping and anchoring

bain marie

pressure cooking

steam-cleaning of machinery and underbody

incubating chicks (chick magnet !)

sterilising instruments

pressing clothes

calliope

line shooting

steam shovel (dredging channels)

repelling pirate boarders
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Old 09-03-2014, 16:02   #88
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
nice idea ...

the possibilities are truly endless

donkey engine for warping and anchoring

bain marie

pressure cooking

steam-cleaning of machinery and underbody

incubating chicks (chick magnet !)

sterilising instruments

pressing clothes

calliope

line shooting

steam shovel (dredging channels)

repelling pirate boarders


it would be ideal for nimblemotors catamaran as well in terms of weight distribution,with the boiler mounted centrally,and either turbines driving the props or electric motors powered by steam generated electricity!

you could also cook pizza in the boiler
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Old 09-03-2014, 16:17   #89
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

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it would be ideal for nimblemotors catamaran as well in terms of weight distribution,with the boiler mounted centrally,and either turbines driving the props or electric motors powered by steam generated electricity!

you could also cook pizza in the boiler
NOW you're talking!

And fry eggs and bacon on the shovel ...
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:45   #90
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Think the OP might be consuming a little too much wacky tobacco.
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