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Old 06-03-2014, 14:30   #46
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

The old and proven way is a hydrophore tank. When I started sailing, it was the norm on many fine sailing yachts, made from brass and hung under the ceiling in the galley. Works just like a water tower. Filling it was done with a manual pump but many replaced that with a small electric plunger pump.
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Old 06-03-2014, 14:53   #47
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
The old and proven way is a hydrophore tank. When I started sailing, it was the norm on many fine sailing yachts, made from brass and hung under the ceiling in the galley. Works just like a water tower. Filling it was done with a manual pump but many replaced that with a small electric plunger pump.


If you must deviate from electric pump tradition, now HERE is the right way to do it Talk about KISS!

For those of you who doubt the lethality of CO2 in a boat, where the gas cannot escape, read this: Toxicity of Carbon Dioxide CO2 Gas Exposure, poisoning symptoms, exposure limits, and Links to Toxic Gas Testing Procedures C02 Gas toxicity CO2 exposure limits

CO2 is deadly, deadly, deadly. Just 6% concentration will debilitate you in less than 30 minutes.
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Old 06-03-2014, 15:49   #48
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Plus, all that CO2 leaking out of the water taps will attract mosquitoes!
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Old 06-03-2014, 16:24   #49
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Aside from the asphyxiation dangers of leaking CO2, having my water tanks pressurised would worry the beejeezus outta me!

I've had a hose come off an automatic pressurised line and it was surprising how fast the tanks were emptied into the bilge. And of course it happened a week away from the next source of water resupply. A manual pump or header tank is the way to KISS.
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Old 06-03-2014, 16:41   #50
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

If you insist on pressurizing soda kegs, at least use a scuba tank and plain old air. I have an adapter with a regulator that fits on a scuba tank and drops the pressure down to 100 psi or so. Just add a variable regulator to that and dial it down to 5 or 10 psi. At least when you have the inevitable leak, it won't be CO2.

I don't know if you considered this, but when you've emptied the keg of water, it's now full of gas. If you keep it hooked to the regulator @ 10psi, you now have 5 gal of it at that pressure. You have to release that pressure to refill the keg, so if it's CO2 you have to go outside to do it. With air, not a problem.

I still think this is like skinning a cat with 2 sticks of dynamite. Yes, the cat is now hairless. Yes, it's a very messy way to do it. No, I don't think it's an elegant or popular solution.
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Old 06-03-2014, 19:31   #51
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

As someone who has designed CO2 fire suppression systems, (used in newspaper press rooms for one). A large CO2 leak inside a boat would be very deadly. Like running a generator in the cabin, but much faster. You would be dead before you knew it.

Please do not store or use CO2 inside. Its just not worth the risk.

Don't even use compressed air in a normal water tank, BTW. You would need at least 5 psig air pressure, most likely to get water thru the piping and faucet. That's 5 PSI per inch of tank surface. Have 5 SF of surface area and that's 3600 pounds of pressure trying to lift the top of the tank off. You could use beer kegs for water storage, but why reinvent the wheel.

You really want a foot pump, Simple and safe and proven world over.
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Old 06-03-2014, 21:14   #52
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

It used to be common to install CO2 fire systems in engine rooms of large yachts. They pretty much went away with the advent of Halon systems. I remember an incident back in the early seventies when two men were killed in the engine room of a yacht at the marina next to my store. They had accidently set off the CO2 fire system.
I've always wondered why they didn't have time to escape.

Fire systems are designed with enough CO2 to completely flood the area to be protected. I don't know if the small bottle the OP is using contains enough CO2 to bring the level in his cabin to dangerous levels. I don't know how you'd calculate that. Sailorchic you're our resident engineer, can you calculate it?
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Old 06-03-2014, 21:25   #53
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

This is from the link that Dockhead provided.

"A CO2 level of 4 percent is designated by NIOSH as immediately dangerous to life or health."

That might explain why the two men in my story couldn't escape the engine room.
I'm sure the CO2 levels in the engine room went well above 4% very fast.
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Old 06-03-2014, 22:36   #54
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Co2 at 5% is toxic. On my boat for example, there is roughly 900 CF of space. Actually its less then that. A 5% concentration would need 45 CF of Co2. CO2 has 8.1 CF per pound. So 5.5 pounds would be enough to do me in on my boat.

CO2 on a boat would be extremely hazardous, in the extreme. Under high concentrations you would have less then 30 seconds of consciousness, more likely 15 seconds or 4-5 breaths. CO2 has an anesthetic effect on the body and is used to kill lab animals and chickens, among other things.

Halon 1301 (currently banned) was safe up to 7% concentrations. Above that and it could cause heart arrhythmia. Co2 will Kill faster then Co.

Co2 fire suppression would have a minimum design concentration of 35%. Normally there is a prealarm prior to discharge in an occupied space with 20 seconds to reach an exit. Oxygen masks are normally provided too, just in case. But I would not bet my life on one.
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Old 06-03-2014, 22:45   #55
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

So having a co2 fire extinguisher on board would be extremely dangerous?
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Old 06-03-2014, 22:51   #56
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
So having a co2 fire extinguisher on board would be extremely dangerous?
In a word, YES!

For small enclosed spaces, like the engine room, it works. But you don't want to use a 5 LB CO2 extinguisher to put out a galley fire. It will put you out too.
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Old 06-03-2014, 23:18   #57
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Sailorchic I knew you'd be able to do the math. A blond with brains is a very dangerous combination!

I think the guys who died in my story were working on the fire system and were employees of a company that installed them.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:02   #58
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

I have a 5# CO2 i keep on board as well as more than the required standard powder. I have used it on a couple occasions to put out small flame-ups on the kerosene cabin heater. Just a short puff and it"s out. I did a short puff from a powder a few years back and I swear I was cleaning powder for years. The stuff can get everywhere fast.

AS sailorchic34 pointed out, CO2 is dangerous. If I can lay my hands on a couple 2.5#'rs I will replace the 5 with it. 5# is a lot of CO2. If the flame doesn't extinguish with a short puff, reach for the dry chem!

BTW, a standard dry chem in engine room is very reactive with all your wiring. I have a dry chem with a different powder just for the engine room!
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:05   #59
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Sailorchic is worst casing it, 5.5 lbs would fill the entire volume with a lethal amount, but since C02 is heavier than air, if you were laying in your bunk, it would take even less than 5 lbs to make it so you never woke up. C02 poisoning is difficult to detect and you go out in a hurry, it's THE reason I won't dive a re-breather. It acts so fast, that often a diver loses consciousness before they can even change regulators to their "bailout gas" which only takes a couple of seconds.
Halon 1301 can still be had, but we are mostly sailboats, right?1301 HALON FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM from Aircraft Spruce
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:18   #60
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Re: Compressed Co2 Pressurized Water

Jack B, I hope you're just having fun with us. (Having us on as the Brits would say.) It reminds me of something Woodie from Cheers said: You can call me stupid, but don't call my idea stupid." (I'm not calling you stupid-I just thought him getting the concepts backwards was funny.)
You might read The Strange Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst (or see the movie Deep Water but the book has more engineering info) for more ideas.
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