Composting toilets or wet sewage systems

[Meanderthal]

Originally Posted by David B

Love it Peggy!
For us, we prefer not to have to empty containers of urine, then containers of solids, buy more material etc, etc, and go through the whole process again. We just prefer our two electric Jabsco's each with gravity emptying holding tanks that can be emptied at a dock or at sea, and enjoy no odour, no hassle, and get on with sailing.
But - each to their own, and that's what makes life (and this forum) entertaining [emoji2]

I have cleaned many a bathroom in my parents' pizzeria, preteen through college. Uniformly, the men's bathroom (equipped with a toilet and urinal) smelled horrifyingly like an abattoir of urea. It was as if each occupant sprayed little parting drops on the walls and ceiling while they were at it. Ugh. 'Retraining' is right and necessary: men in general can't aim on land, I am not cool with male upright peeing in a tiny boat head on a moving vessel shared with other people. This isn't a 'men are stupid' comment. I guess I was sort of herd mentality/men pee standing up, until my husband asked "Have you ever been in a men's bathroom that didn't have pee everywhere?" Flashback to those years in the pizzeria bathrooms. Shudder.

I am an environmental engineer as well. Soil, water, and sh%t, that's what environmental engineers specialize in. Waste handling is the bedrock of civilization--the fundamental ingredient required for animals to coexist in groups. Unsurprisingly, there's more than one way to approach the problem.

Some considerations that tip our boat more towards dry systems:

1) Pump out system availability is close to nonexistent, and most pump outs are shut down in winter anyways, where I am.

2) Almost all sailing/traveling is within 3 miles of shore. (361 days out of 365, on average over two years)

3) Lots of zero discharge zones

4) The climate requires more interior storage space for safety, weather, spares, fuel.

5) The ocean doesn't need our nutrients, but the land often does.

6) I have a personal preference for minimizing waste--and adding water to waste makes the water waste as well.

7) I'm not convinced of the efficacy of salt-removal when treating pump out wastes, and I AM convinced of the efficacy of recycling sludge and municipal wood wastes as compost for local landscaping.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

...I have perhaps a unique need (or it should be). I would like to be able to move it into the cockpit at night since there is no head compartment in the cabin. Thus, both size and weight are strictly limited. I would like to not have to dump it each time someone uses it day sailing. Finally, I'm not sure about training folks to use something different... but marine heads are different, so that should be possible.

I’m happy to take a crack at your needs/queries Thin, at least from a nature’s head perspective.

While it is possible to move a NH around as a single unit, it would be quite difficult. I don’t think either the NH or the AH would be very appropriate. I’m far less familiar with the CH, but I suspect it too would not meet your needs very well.

Not dumping after each use would be no issue for any of the three. I go four to six weeks, two adults, between dumps. The urine bucket gets dumped every two to three days (unless I’m drinking lots of beer ).

The only training required for a NH is to remember to open the trap door when pooping. And to close it again when done. Giving the handle a few turns is also a good idea, but is not essential.

For urination, the only thing to do is glance at the bottle to make sure there’s enough room left (it’s an easy visual thing with the NH). Other than that the only other ‘training' is that men must sit. After that there is really is no further instruction needed to use the thing. The head is designed to direct the two effluents appropriately, at least it does for adults.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Indeed David, if you had used “advocate” we would not be having this unfortunately testy discussion. I would even accept “ardent.” Zealot is a term with many serious negative connotations, particularly these days.

I believe you did not intend it this way, and happily accept your apology. Perhaps my response was a tad strong, and for that I too apologize. I can only say yours came on the heels of a number of other insults that clearly were meant as that, and some included the same term you inadvertently used. That is my explanation, and my excuse, for jumping down your throat. Again, apologies all round…

As I said (and have said every time this topic comes up), I am happy to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly of these types of heads. My main purpose for being in this discussion is to respond to questions from interested folks, share my own experiences, and perhaps learn a few new tips.

There is no such thing as a perfect head. Heck, there’s no perfect anything when it comes to boat systems. I welcome civil and thoughtful discussion about the pros and cons of various choices. Sadly, the mention of “composting heads” seems to trigger a viscerally negative response from some — most of whom have little or no actual experience with them.

My own theory (playing pop-psychologist ) is this is because most humans have an instinctual ‘disgust’ reaction to feces — particularly human poop. It’s no doubt an evolutionary trait we’ve acquired over our genetic history. This is why most people prefer to flush-and-forget — at least those of us in developed countries. As I’m sure you know, most of the world doesn’t have that luxury.

Hi Mike,

All good, and we could really get things going by including anchors and teak decks in the discussion (on second thoughts I need to get some work done )

[David B]

Originally Posted by Meanderthal

I have cleaned many a bathroom in my parents' pizzeria, preteen through college. Uniformly, the men's bathroom (equipped with a toilet and urinal) smelled horrifyingly like an abattoir of urea. It was as if each occupant sprayed little parting drops on the walls and ceiling while they were at it. Ugh. 'Retraining' is right and necessary: men in general can't aim on land, I am not cool with male upright peeing in a tiny boat head on a moving vessel shared with other people. This isn't a 'men are stupid' comment. I guess I was sort of herd mentality/men pee standing up, until my husband asked "Have you ever been in a men's bathroom that didn't have pee everywhere?" Flashback to those years in the pizzeria bathrooms. Shudder.

I am an environmental engineer as well. Soil, water, and sh%t, that's what environmental engineers specialize in. Waste handling is the bedrock of civilization--the fundamental ingredient required for animals to coexist in groups. Unsurprisingly, there's more than one way to approach the problem.

Some considerations that tip our boat more towards dry systems:

1) Pump out system availability is close to nonexistent, and most pump outs are shut down in winter anyways, where I am.

2) Almost all sailing/traveling is within 3 miles of shore. (361 days out of 365, on average over two years)

3) Lots of zero discharge zones

4) The climate requires more interior storage space for safety, weather, spares, fuel.

5) The ocean doesn't need our nutrients, but the land often does.

6) I have a personal preference for minimizing waste--and adding water to waste makes the water waste as well.

7) I'm not convinced of the efficacy of salt-removal when treating pump out wastes, and I AM convinced of the efficacy of recycling sludge and municipal wood wastes as compost for local landscaping.

So there is a good, logical reason for someone to consider a 'composting' head. Good, balanced contribution

[David B]

Originally Posted by smj

Seems every time this discussion comes up it brings back memories of 16 years of full time living aboard with a standard Marine waste system. Makes the last 10 years of living with a composter seem ever so sweet.

Ah! but if the smell is the reason for changing, then don't forget that a properly installed and maintained flushing system does not smell!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Not very polite. Also not accurate in any detail. Stick to what you know.

FWIW, and whether you believe it or not is none of my interest, but my last boat had zero stink. I think it should be obvious on the face of it that very expensive boats do quite well with wet systems. Denigrating this obvious truth, is well, embarrassing for you.

That was about as politely as I could say it and yeah, on a number of these threads, she has posted false information to discredit a viable option in favor of the one she has laid claim to "head mistress" status on.

Yep, I do find it hard to believe your system has zero stink based on the fact, I've yet to come across a wet sewage system that doesn't stink.

[uhu]

Originally Posted by handmer

One of my favourite aspects of a composting toilet is being able to use baby wipes. Oh so fresh.

BabyWipes in a composting toilet ?

? where did you find biodegradable BabyWipes ? = interested !

[smj]

Originally Posted by David B

Ah! but if the smell is the reason for changing, then don't forget that a properly installed and maintained flushing system does not smell!

Never came across one of those!

[David B]

Originally Posted by smj

Never came across one of those!

Doesn't mean they don't exist.
Like giraffes I suppose - they're out there whether you've seen one or not

[bletso]

Originally Posted by David B

Ah! but if the smell is the reason for changing, then don't forget that a properly installed and maintained flushing system does not smell!

Perhaps some of the source of a smelly head is the pizzeria effect! Good point. Do home systems smell? Not as a rule.
That said, the main reason I switched to an NH is the holding tank capacity, availability of pump outs, and an old system. To upgrade would have cost more than the NH. After the fact I have been very favourably impressed with our desecrater/composter.

[Mike OReilly]

I switched to a composter (NH) about seven years ago for these main reasons:

1. Freedom: My cruising was essentially being limited by the size of my holding tank. I like to be away for months at a time, often anchored in small, remote spots. A composter means my head is no longer a limiting factor.
   
   
2. Space recovery: Removing the holding tank and plumbing from the wet system freed up a significant space for storage on my smallish boat. In the place of my sewage tank I now hold two inflatable kayaks and all the gear, a drifter sail, my epoxy kit, and miscellaneous tools.
   
   
3. Simplicity: Maintaining and repairing a composting head is far easier than a wet system (at least for me). It is different than a wet system, for sure. But there’s almost nothing to break. And the consequence of catastrophic failure is far less than a wet system.
   
   
4. Safety: A composter means three fewer holes in my boat.

I did not switch because I was dissatisfied with my wet system. I’ve sailed with standard marine heads for most of my boat life. I’ve had some of the normal issues, all of which were fairly easy to deal with. There’s nothing wrong with a standard marine head.

I switched to a composter because — for me — it is a better head. Other people, with other needs, will come to different conclusions. And that’s just fine.

[Meanderthal]

Originally Posted by bletso

Perhaps some of the source of a smelly head is the pizzeria effect! Good point. Do home systems smell? Not as a rule.
That said, the main reason I switched to an NH is the holding tank capacity, availability of pump outs, and an old system. To upgrade would have cost more than the NH. After the fact I have been very favourably impressed with our desecrater/composter.

Lol, I love the idea of calling the head the 'desecrater'

[bletso]

Originally Posted by Meanderthal

Lol, I love the idea of calling the head the 'desecrater'

Yeh, don't you just hate auto correct!! I caught it too late to correct.

[Meanderthal]

Originally Posted by bletso

Yeh, don't you just hate auto correct!! I caught it too late to correct.

I'm not so sure I think the autocorrect got it wrong 😉

[bletso]

Originally Posted by Meanderthal

I'm not so sure I think the autocorrect got it wrong 😉

Actually, to each his own. This kind of remark is exactly what Mike was referring to.