Composting heads for long term Cruising?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Humans not part of nature? Is Darwin a fraud?

We've evolved... Or have we? Personally, I can't imagine inviting guests into your yacht and asking them to use an outhouse, inside the house. Three cheers for indoor plumbing!

[smj]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We've evolved... Or have we? Personally, I can't imagine inviting guests into your yacht and asking them to use an outhouse, inside the house. Three cheers for indoor plumbing!

Never really considered our boat a house, and never considered outfitting our boat to meet a guests needs but we all have our opinions and ways of doing things.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Scout 30]

While I don't believe that waste from boats has any harmful effect on the environment I do believe that composting heads represent the future for boats due to onerous regulations that will only get worse. However, my decision to change to a composting head was actually precipitated by the cost & complexity of having to replace my poorly designed sanitation system. My decision to go with the C-Head was based upon several things including it's design which uses nonproprietary components, it's reasonable cost & it's more pleasing appearance. You can even get one in teak. For me it's a win win. Really easy to use & no worries about compliance.

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We've evolved... Or have we? Personally, I can't imagine inviting guests into your yacht and asking them to use an outhouse, inside the house. Three cheers for indoor plumbing!

Hi Kenomac,

Having had experience with the old-style composting toilets [in cabins on land] that had one collection point for everything [the ones designed to evaporate out the liquids (if not overloaded)] I would say your outhouse analogy is fair [and perhaps with some units I have experienced, an understatement...]

However, having replaced one of our two Lavac heads with one of the new-style composting heads this spring (Nature's Head)- one that separates liquids from solids- I can tell you first hand that the analogy no longer applies. [If odors are the primary objection...]

Interesting to me was the fact that of two unrelated groups of guests (4 adults; 4 children ranging in age from 10-17) who joined us at different times for a week or more this summer all preferred the Nature's Head to the Lavac by a wide margin. [Both heads are kept scrupulously clean and are totally odor free and easy to use...]

We made sure to remind everyone daily that either head was at their disposal, and they all did use both at least once- typically when the other was already occupied...

When I asked each person individually at the end of their stay why they preferred the composting head, they all had the same answer: "I don't have to pump it..." This even though they chose to empty the liquid container themselves...

[Note: I plan to plumb the liquid discharge directly to the old holding tank for that head to eliminate the routine emptying of the portable liquid container, but don't tell them...]

Of course, a new-style composting head can provide an outhouse like experience if not properly maintained, but the same applies to any plugged or leaking flush toilet [which is one reason why we changed one head to a composting one after having had that experience with guests last year...]

One thing I keep asking myself is whether I prefer the monthly (for 2 full time adults) emptying of the dry matter in the Nature's Head [odorless from a fecal standpoint- but admittedly not composted at that point] or sleeping on top of 50 gallons of liquified human effluvia [and having to empty that weekly] and the associated risks if [when...?] something malfunctions or requires maintenance with that system... [That experience will make an outhouse desirable...]

The jury is still out- and I'm not defending either approach since I have both- but now that I have a summer's worth of first hand experience with a Nature's Head I can think of other things I might prefer to store under my berth...

Everyone's mileage will vary- even when driving the same vehicle...

Cheers!

Bill

[Mike OReilly]

Nice summary Bill.

As I keep saying, for those of you who are actually considering a switch to a composting head... You can either listen to those have opinion but little actual experience, or you can listen to those of us who have lived and cruised with both. Count the number of people who have switched and who are unhappy with their choice vs those of us who are very pleased. Then, you be the judge.

BTW, Siberianhusky is talking about a Sun-Mar type composting toilet. They don't separate liquids, but instead rely on a heater and venting to get rid of the urine. Sun-Mar makes a "marine" version of their toilet, but I quickly dismissed it b/c it is only rated for one adult for full-time use. Plus, it requires a lot of power to run the heater. Not a good fit on a smallish sailboat. Perhaps a powerboat. I personally know one boater who installed a Sun-Mar on board, but then swapped it out in favour of a Nature's Head after a couple of seasons of use.

[jcapo]

I'm sold on the C-Head because its the only one that will fit in the space available.

I'd love to hear from C-Head users how well the urine diverter works for females.

[laika]

Originally Posted by jcapo

I'm sold on the C-Head because its the only one that will fit in the space available.

I'd love to hear from C-Head users how well the urine diverter works for females.

I've got a small sister ship to you with a C-Head. To my great regret, I've not had a huge cross-section of females onboard to test the unit (but, hey, a few!). None have had any issues that they addressed directly to me, and I could see why as the urine diverter actually takes up about half the total opening, with the poop shoot farther aft than you might imagine.

One of the unsung pluses of the composters is that they keep themselves very clean..because even men have to sit down to pee, no more pee splatter! It's a beautiful world.

[Orion Jim]

Here's my solution. It has the added benefit of allowing me to always find a spot in crowded anchorages. The minute I get my ground tackle ready to drop everyone around me starts pulling their anchors and insists on giving me LOTS of swinging room.

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by Jim Walsh

Here's my solution. It has the added benefit of allowing me to always find a spot in crowded anchorages. The minute I get my ground tackle ready to drop everyone around me starts pulling their anchors and insists on giving me LOTS of swinging room.

Hi Jim,

A great example of thinking outside of the box... Your solution also eliminates any concerns about adequate head ventilation...

Over the years I have seen a couple of boats with toilet seats strategically located on existing railing systems [one on the bow, one on the stern...] Both were mounted directly over the water and were claimed to be used on passages...

Cheers!

Bill

[Tx J]

Originally Posted by Jim Walsh

Here's my solution. It has the added benefit of allowing me to always find a spot in crowded anchorages. The minute I get my ground tackle ready to drop everyone around me starts pulling their anchors and insists on giving me LOTS of swinging room.

Very funny.
Have you considered putting two of them in, one in each corner like the popular cockpit rail seats?
Two functions from each one: lid down, regular corner seat; lid up, all 'whizz and biz'.

[Ocean Girl]

C-head question --We have a c head diverter on our custom built dry head. Out of 10-12 females that have used our head over the years.

1 female could not pee in the fwd section for some reason.
1 female refused to use it. She never said " I refuse" but there was a lot of drinking and after a few visits to the boat for seversl hours it became apparent she was avoiding the head. She was a full time cruiser.

All other female and males that have used our head did not seem to have a problem, though a couple never seemed to use enough peat.

Since we started cruising we use more peat, not sure why as we were live aboards for years. Also, reading other comments, it seems the commercial heads are more efficient and change peat less often. We use about a gallon of peat a week and I change the peat every 8-10 days. I line our peat bucket with a trash bag so it's a simple process. This is a dramatic difference, before cruising, I wouldn't change the peat but every month or so.

My big reluctance to the dry head was the outhouse mentality. I suggest anyone who wants to convert to dry head to try it out first using a camping dry toilet ($30), before ripping out their wet system. As Kenomac can testify, it is not for everone.

[JPA Cate]

" but there was a lot of drinking and after a few visits to the boat for seversl hours it became apparent she was avoiding the head. She was a full time cruiser."

There are some women who just don't want to use a head other than their own. We've seen it most often with newer cruisers who seem more uptight about bodily functions. They appear embarrassed to use your private space.

Ann

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by Ocean Girl

C-head question --We have a c head diverter on our custom built dry head. Out of 10-12 females that have used our head over the years.


...Since we started cruising we use more peat, not sure why as we were live aboards for years. Also, reading other comments, it seems the commercial heads are more efficient and change peat less often. We use about a gallon of peat a week and I change the peat every 8-10 days. I line our peat bucket with a trash bag so it's a simple process. This is a dramatic difference, before cruising, I wouldn't change the peat but every month or so...

My big reluctance to the dry head was the outhouse mentality. I suggest anyone who wants to convert to dry head to try it out first using a camping dry toilet ($30), before ripping out their wet system. As Kenomac can testify, it is not for everone.

Hi Ocean Girl,

Do you have fan forced ventilation on your custom built dry head?

When I was researching dry heads I recall that C-Head had no ventilation, and didn't recommend any.

Contrarily, Nature's Head and AirHead both have a built in pancake fan [vented outdoors] to constantly remove air from the dry storage bin. I plumbed our Nature's head vent hose to a solar vent- providing redundancy for what seems like an important function (at least for the Nature's Head.)

I wonder if lack of forced ventilation could be a contributing factor to what you are experiencing with peat consumption to help keep the storage bin dry...?

For what its worth...

Cheers!

Bill

[Mike OReilly]

Ocean Girl, that really seems way too frequent a pile change. Especially odd given your previous experience. When living aboard did you use other facilities perhaps?

I too would echo Bill's comments about ventilation. I know our Nature's Head needs air flow to function properly.

Could you be getting moisture into the pile somehow? Urine splash or from some other source? Maybe the plastic bag is acting as a vapour barrier, preventing it from drying out sufficiently?

Are you cruising in a particularly humid climate?

We use coir. I've never used peat. Maybe give that a try?


Why go fast, when you can go slow

[Rustic Charm]

I find this quite a funny thread

Now don't get me wrong guys and gals, I applaud you all for your environmental consciousness if that's what it is.

But, whilst I think i'm pretty conscious of the environment, reading this forum, I really can't see any incentive to change from my very noisy but efficient and reasonably cheap 'mulch it and dump it overboard' system.

I read with some amusement those of you who have these wonderful systems and claim 'there's very little maintenance' required, but then talkabout disposals, separation of liquids, need for additives and all the rest.

I just push a button and it goes ZZZZZZZZZZ into a holding tank and then flick a seacock and it silently feeds the fish and it's all done. In four years I've had one clogg which cleared it's self after 15 minutes. ummm, who's got the better system