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Old 12-09-2015, 16:03   #61
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

Thanks Jim, it does seem to preclude composting heads from Ontario waters, as well as all portapoties. Given the vast number of these things out there, I guess this is yet another regulation that isn't being enforced. It's interesting the USGC classifies composting heads as meeting the requirement to be considered a holding tank, but Ontario apparently doesn't.

Here's the link:
Visitor Information - Transport Canada

Guess it's a good thing we'll soon be out of Ontario .
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Old 12-09-2015, 16:15   #62
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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Originally Posted by JimJohnston View Post
I found this in the Transport canada marine information for foreign pleasure boaters visiting canada (sorry I didn't keep the URL)

They write:

Sewage Restrictions
Help Keep Our Waterways Clean

There are restrictions against pumping sewage into all waters with the province of Ontario and some interior lakes of British Columbia and Manitoba. In these areas, a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet must also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system that allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge must be visibly disconnected. Sewage may only be discharged at shore pump-out facilities.

Portable Toilets

Portable toilets are illegal on Ontario waters.

The owner of a pleasure craft shall ensure that each toilet and the holding tank(s) is/are installed so that;

The toilet and equipment are connected in such a manner that the equipment receives all toilet waste from the toilet.
Equipment designed for the storage of human excrement is provided with a deck fitting and such connecting piping as is necessary for the removal of toilet waste by shore-based pumping equipment.
No means of removal of toilet waste is provided other than the means mentioned above.
All parts of the system for removal of toilet waste are congruent with one another and the boat.

It appears that there isn't a lot of wiggle room if you follow the regulation to the letter. Pity
My bet is they are trying to rule out any system that people can bypass 'pumping' out, even when full. And people being human, will by pass and tip over board. The conversations on CF are pretty much proof of that.
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:21   #63
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

That legislation has to be challenged, it is solution specific (holding tank) and prevents innovation. In the old days water heads were great - pump in out no holding 20 gallons of crap. Then came reasonable rules about not polluting ( I swim by my boat so have a vested interest!). quick solution was holding tank - but then reality came in - 20 gallons of undesirable stuff, growing strange bacteria, smelling and if full you are stuck!. Those of us with composting heads looked for an alternative.

Legislation saying holding tank is self defeating, what do people do when full and no (working) pump outs around? Of course no one cheats, they just stop eating and drinking!
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Old 13-09-2015, 12:53   #64
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

i guess my attempt at humour was taken down.. ill keep my jokes to myself..
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Old 14-09-2015, 03:08   #65
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

It appears to be a matter of interpretation:

If the composting toilet is fixed down in the vessel ie some screws into the vessel structure it is not a portable toilet.

The holding tank is integral with the processing system and constitutes a zero discharge system and therefor there are no discharge requirements or facilities to which regulations might apply?

The part you may have problems with is urine disposal?

etc. etc. etc.
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Old 15-09-2015, 21:13   #66
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

I am about to replace my holding tank y valve hoses etc OR go the compost route so have been reading all these threads and watching videos and not once has toilet paper been mentioned do you put paper in the composting toilet or not???
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Old 15-09-2015, 21:41   #67
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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I am about to replace my holding tank y valve hoses etc OR go the compost route so have been reading all these threads and watching videos and not once has toilet paper been mentioned do you put paper in the composting toilet or not???
It would be up to you. Either way use composting paper. Putting the paper in the toilet adds to the bulk and somewhat shortens the emptying span, but not a big deal.
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Old 15-09-2015, 22:16   #68
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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I am about to replace my holding tank y valve hoses etc OR go the compost route so have been reading all these threads and watching videos and not once has toilet paper been mentioned do you put paper in the composting toilet or not???
You can go either way to suit your situation/preferences. However there are trade-offs.

We put a Nature's Head in one of our heads this spring. With 2 adults [full time live-aboards] we can go about 30 days before emptying the solids bin. If we put toilet paper in with the solids, it only lasts about 2 weeks [or slightly less] between empties.

Since we have a habit of not flushing toilet paper down our Lavac head, we do the same with the Nature's Head preferring to maximize time between servicing and deal with TP separately.

We had two separate sets of visitors this summer separate TP without any consequences or push-back. [Since they could use either head, we wanted to be consistent...]

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 15-09-2015, 22:45   #69
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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Originally Posted by sartorst View Post
I am about to replace my holding tank y valve hoses etc OR go the compost route so have been reading all these threads and watching videos and not once has toilet paper been mentioned do you put paper in the composting toilet or not???

We put feces paper in, but my wife (bless her cruising heart) diverts her urine paper into a bag. We last about 5 weeks with the two of us on board. I will say we both use a minimal amount of paper to get the job done.


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Old 16-09-2015, 02:43   #70
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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... do you put paper in the composting toilet or not???
I stopped putting paper in my marine toilet long before I swapped it out for a composting head. Initially it was just for long passages. I placed a packet of paper lunch bags in the head, and everyone put their soiled paper in one and tossed it overboard when they were done. Eventually I placed a small trash can next to the toilet and the papers went in there whether or not we were underway. When I switched to the composting head I just followed the same procedure.
Over the years with a standard marine toilet I've had to clear sewage blockages several times. The blockages invariably were caused by a paper jam.

John
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Old 16-09-2015, 07:00   #71
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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Originally Posted by sartorst View Post
I am about to replace my holding tank y valve hoses etc OR go the compost route so have been reading all these threads and watching videos and not once has toilet paper been mentioned do you put paper in the composting toilet or not???
We have a Nature's Head. Mr. cthoops doesn't use toilet paper for urine (obviously - you guys are so lucky) and I put urine toilet paper in a bag. For both of us, feces toilet paper goes in the Nature's Head but we don't need much and we separate each square before use. We realized that if we don't pull the squares apart it tended to wrap around the agitator bar. YMMV.
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Old 16-09-2015, 07:16   #72
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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Originally Posted by Cthoops View Post
We have a Nature's Head. Mr. cthoops doesn't use toilet paper for urine (obviously - you guys are so lucky) and I put urine toilet paper in a bag. For both of us, feces toilet paper goes in the Nature's Head but we don't need much and we separate each square before use. We realized that if we don't pull the squares apart it tended to wrap around the agitator bar. YMMV.
Well, that's keen. So much easier just to send it overboard.
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Old 16-09-2015, 07:57   #73
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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My bet is they are trying to rule out any system that people can bypass 'pumping' out, even when full. And people being human, will by pass and tip over board. The conversations on CF are pretty much proof of that.
They're trying to use laws to change behavior rather than educate people to why something may be harmful and stop doing it in their own best interest.

The government also says this:

"In these areas, a pleasure craft fitted with a toilet must also be fitted with a holding tank and if fitted with a piping system that allows the discharge of sewage directly overboard, then this discharge must be visibly disconnected."

A law cannot stop someone from reconnecting their piping and pumping overboard then disconnecting the piping again to comply with the law.

If the goal is to change behavior, education as to why not to discharge overboard will work far better than easily circumvented laws.
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:34   #74
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

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I'm surprised the EPA hasn't banned manatees from pooping the the water.
Ken,
They'll fine them first . . . if that doesn't work, they'll send out the Marine Patrol.
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Old 16-09-2015, 18:42   #75
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Re: Composting heads for long term Cruising?

Manatee poop, porpoise poop & bird poop are all natural & cannot considered harmful. Humans, especially when in boats, are not part of nature & their waste is a deadly toxic slime that must be stopped or it will mean the end of everything we hold dear.
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