Composting Head Impact on Resale

[Mike OReilly]

Sounds like a sensible plan R1Guy.

When I made the switch I initially left all plumbing and holding tank in place for a season. I had done the research, but wanted to see how the CH actually performed.

As you can guess, the following season I ripped out all the stinky hoses and holding tank, and sealed up the thru hulls. I’d never want to go back to a standard marine head, and would definitely see a pre-installed one as a plus for any boat I might consider in the future.

Good luck with the conversion.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

For me, it would be a definite plus to see a composting head already installed. So I guess it would depend on the market, the location, and the customer.

Composting heads are more common than some here seem to think. Even based on a survey conducted here on CF last year it shows nearly 25% of respondents use a CH.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ve-184086.html

My apologies in advance if this showed up before mine, but I expect that any survey that had the question of which type would generate responses only from those who have a vested interest in the outcome.

That would make the Cs substantially more likely to respond than the others, presumed all to be 'standard' marine toilets.

Thus I would take the 25% positive as a very distorted reality. I can say with some assurance (though I have not bothered to document it) that the percentage we encounter is much smaller than that.

YMMV, of course

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

My apologies in advance if this showed up before mine, but I expect that any survey that had the question of which type would generate responses only from those who have a vested interest in the outcome.

That would make the Cs substantially more likely to respond than the others, presumed all to be 'standard' marine toilets.

Thus I would take the 25% positive as a very distorted reality. I can say with some assurance (though I have not bothered to document it) that the percentage we encounter is much smaller than that.

YMMV, of course

I assume you’re read my other responses on this by now?

BTW, by your reasoning, those with standard marine heads must have had the highest “vested interest” in responding, since they easily come out on top in the poll at nearly 58%.

I’m constantly amazed at those of you who seem to know what other people’s heads are. It’s just not a common topic of conversation in my cruising world. I usually end up talking about cruising grounds, where we’ve all been, the people we’ve seen, the wind and sea. We talk about the types of boats we have, but arely have I, or anyone else, asked: “So, how do you poop?”

Must be a cultural thing I guess

[mtompson]

All I'd say is the one thing prospective buyers will notice is the lack of the boat smell that goes with a normal setup, composting heads are great in every way, we use ours every day, with 3 kids as well, no problems at all.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I assume you’re read my other responses on this by now?

BTW, by your reasoning, those with standard marine heads must have had the highest “vested interest” in responding, since they easily come out on top in the poll at nearly 58%.

I’m constantly amazed at those of you who seem to know what other people’s heads are. It’s just not a common topic of conversation in my cruising world. I usually end up talking about cruising grounds, where we’ve all been, the people we’ve seen, the wind and sea. We talk about the types of boats we have, but arely have I, or anyone else, asked: “So, how do you poop?”

Must be a cultural thing I guess

LOL I was referring more to the nature of the missionaries in the boonies where Christianity had not yet penetrated (yes, there were some who'd been converted by prior missionaries).

The missionaries might reasonably be more enthusiastic about responding, along with their converts, than the natives in general (what percentage of Cs responded compared to what percentage of marine sanitation of any other stripe?).

Without a random sample (e.g. you go to George Town in high season and knock on the hull of all 300 or 500 or however many boats it is), I'd consider this a loaded question type survey.

Yet, it may, in fact, be representative. I just have not found myself in a conversational representative sample of other cruisers, yet, apparently.

I'm not disputing it as a counter-advocate, merely questioning its accuracy against the cruising population at large.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

...I'm not disputing it as a counter-advocate, merely questioning its accuracy against the cruising population at large.

Sigh… and I’ve already said this TWICE now. Do I need to say it again?

The poll was conducted to try and get some actual data on this question about who is using what. All we get is anecdote such as yours. This is clearly a biased perspective. For all its flaws, the poll is at least an attempt at getting something slightly less biased.

The poll’s results are as I’ve said (now three times): it finds nearly 25% of respondents (who are CF members) report using a CH. It is no more representative of the whole cruising comunity than CF is representative of the global cruising community.

There is a further bias b/c it requires a self-selected option to participate. How this second bias skews the results is impossible to say.

[Mike OReilly]

BTW, my only reason for referencing the poll was to try and answer the OP’s question about impact on resale. We can all offer our own personal (biased) opinions. The poll offers some sense, as limited and biased as it is, regarding the prevalence of CHs in used boats.

[Nicholson58]

I’m an engineer too. The first thing we did in order to cruise the Great Lakes was to replace one of our heads with an Airhead. Install what makes sense for your cruise ping plan and grounds. Enjoy it now. By the time you sell the existing heads will be nonfunctional or obsolete. It’s future worth is nil.

[drcat]

a few items about composting and traditional marine heads
1) Take a look at June 28 2018 Sailing Uma Youtube vlog. They had a composting toilet for a year and took it out for reasons they talk about in video.
2) take a look at July 17 and Oct 26 2017 MJ Sailing Youtube vlog. they had to make mods in composting toilet due to smells. They have an alum hull boat which has its own special requirements for thru hulls
3) look at the most recent Cruising World article "Time to Vent" on pg 88. Make convincing argument that most smells in tank are caused by anaerobic bacteria and can be cured by greater air circulation when non-smelly aerobic bacteria take over. Better hoses cut down on smells as well.
4) Gone with the Wynns switched to fresh water flushing (they have a watermaker) to eliminate odors
Personally I would stay away from composting and work towards improving a boat's current setup.

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by gonesail

it's the first thing i thought about when looking at a boat: how do i get rid of the composting head and how much will it cost?

For me it was the exact opposite, everything to do with the conventional marine toilet was removed the very first day on board and replaced with an airhead. That said it would make no difference to me when purchasing a boat one way or another. I realize that most boats are going to have a holding tank and i would have to remove i.

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by gonesail

it's the first thing i thought about when looking at a boat: how do i get rid of the composting head and how much will it cost?

For me it was the exact opposite, everything to do with the conventional marine toilet was removed the very first day on board and replaced with an airhead. That said it would make no difference to me when purchasing a boat one way or another. I realize that most boats are going to have a holding tank and i would have to remove it.

[jayhearts]

I am a tree hugger, and wanted to believe in composting. Also an engineer, and Leary of new technology. We installed a C-Head, the most elegant and cheapest option. Kept the old bowl for six months and then gave it away. Kept all appurtenances in place, in case I (we) hated it, without a thought of resale. Also those nasty bits are hidden away for the next owner to use or not.

[john61ct]

To be Leary of technology, lovely turn of phrase that

https://youtu.be/miGfZ7fRCeU

[Scout 30]

Anecdotal evidence is interesting but is not a reliable market indicator and anyone professing to speak for the market is just offering their opinion because there is no statistical evidence regarding composting heads on boats available. The only way to isolate market reaction to a composting head is through paired data sales analysis using 2 boats that are identical other than the heads.

The fact that the vast majority of boats have standard marine heads is not necessarily an indication of market preference because all boats are sold with them so there is no choice. However, Great Harbour is now including a composting head as standard equipment, with a standard marine head as an option, on their new TT35 trawlers. If they made public the ratio of composting heads to standard marine heads chosen we could get an indication of the actual market preference.


That being said I will note that the highest price paid for a Scout 30 that I'm aware of had a composting head.

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Personally, I’ve never seen a new boat offered at a boat show with a composter head installed. Please provide an example.

Maine Cat is one company that has made the "Air Head" the standard on their boats. https://www.mecat.com/ .

Air Head is the original company. The owner is a unique inventor building his composite toilets in the USA. Natures head is a former dealer of Air Head and in our opinion trying to build something similar to Air Head toilets.

What’s nice about the Air Head toilet is the tank holding the liquid is easily removed. You don’t have to detach the entire toilet to remove the liquid container as required by other brands. If we remember correctly, the Natures Head has a larger seat.

Every October both companies attend the U.S. Sailboat Show in Annapolis, MD. Great opportunity to check out the equipment for yourself and to ask questions.

Air Head Tent K-5
Natures Head Tent B-8