Composting Head Impact on Resale

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

...If composter heads would have a positive impact on resale, ask yourself.... why aren’t the new boats at the shows displayed with composter heads installed?

Some are. It’s a relatively new approach. Like any new idea, it takes time to uptake. I’m willing to be these numbers will rise, particularly here in North America as NDZ’s increase.

Composting heads are going to be a positive for some buyers in some markets. In others, it will be a negative. Know your market, and act accordingly. Personally, I find it rather odd that this would be a serious concern either way for a potential buyer.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Some are. It’s a relatively new approach. Like any new idea, it takes time to uptake. I’m willing to be these numbers will rise, particularly here in North America as NDZ’s increase.

Composting heads are going to be a positive for some buyers in some markets. In others, it will be a negative. Know your market, and act accordingly. Personally, I find it rather odd that this would be a serious concern either way for a potential buyer.

Personally, I’ve never seen a new boat offered at a boat show with a composter head installed. Please provide an example.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Personally, I’ve never seen a new boat offered at a boat show with a composter head installed. Please provide an example.

I don’t see the relevance of this but it was mentioned by someone else in a previous thread (which I’m sure you were in since you’re in all the composting head threads … for some reason). I’ll try and find it if you insist. I don’t buy new boats so have no direct observation.

The answer for the OP is as I stated: in some markets it will be a positive. In others it will be a negative. But either way, it seems to me to be a rather small detail to focus on when looking at buying a USED boat. If you don’t like the head, change it.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Seriously, ask yourself... if you were trying to sell a house that had an outhouse, would that have an impact on resale?

Of course, the problem with this is I've yet to come across a boat with a permanently installed and plumped gravity 5 gal/flush household toilet.

The traditional alternative is quite literally a cesspool you carry on board...so anyone looking for a household system is going to be disappointed no matter what type of system they get.

We had no issue selling our boat that had a composter in it but I doubt you will find any verifiable numbers as people buy the whole package when they buy a boat. I doubt you will find $X off because of the toilet system. This is further complicated by the fact you have a cesspool system in addition, so it's not like they can't use that toilet.

In reality, you have a 41yr old boat, so your resale is likely to be fairly low anyway. As mentioned, your worst case scenario is you put the old system back in.

[OS2Dude]

To me, a composting head would be a turn-off. If the conversion back was easy (Just hoses and remount of original head) it would not be a major detriment. However, if tanks and thruhulls had been removed, it would have to be a heck of a deal for me to consider it.

[RainDog]

I just spent a year boat shopping. 100% of the boats I was aboard, I would have ripped out the entire sanitation system and replaced it. All new heads, all new hose (including vent hose), and in some cases a new holding tank.

So to me what system was installed had little impact on resale because I would throw it away anyways.

I was looking at 30-year-old boats, so this may not apply to newer boats. Also as evidenced by the fact that none of the current owners of these boats seemed to mind that their boat stank, not everyone is as sensitive to boat odors. Many owners seem perfectly happy to keep their 30-year-old hoses and blocked vent lines.

[FutureStories]

Originally Posted by RainDog

We recently sold a boat with a composting head (single head boat). We had kept the holding tank and thru-hulls but ripped out all the hoses. Converting back to a conventional head would have been very easy.

No way to know how many potential buyers didn't look at the boat due to the composting head, but 3 of the people who did seriously look mentioned specifically it was the composting head that attracted them to our particular boat.

I think it can be a plus or a minus depending on the buyer. Keeping the infrastructure in place to easily convert back seems like a sensible hedge.

That said, I am ripping out everything (thru-hulls, holding tank, deck pump out, etc.) on my new boat. Don't want it, but I plan to keep this boat for a long time.

And ironically it was the least attractive thing to the person who put the money down! (I'm the guy that sold your boat, loved your setup recommended the DIY to other buyers who liked the composting idea)

My 2 cents on the topic. Depends on the boat! For a cruising sailboat thats setup for a KISS cruising philosophy its a positive in some areas. However in my experience buyers that like the concept will look at boats that have traditional heads. However buyers that dont like composting heads will not even look at a boat.

Depends on your space wether or not to keep the tank and plumbing. In your viking you have the space and your buyers will expect a traditional head. In a boat like a Bristol Channel Cutter when space is at a premium close and cap the seacock and remove the holding tank and plumbing.

With RONCO plastics and Jabsco manual flush heads you can put a whole system back in for under $500.

[FutureStories]

Im pro-****-where-you-want!

Ive yet to hear someone who went composting that went back. However the statistic of 25% of boats having composting heads I think is FAR off reality.

We have over 350 boats listed and we sell more boats than anyone else in the mid-atlantic. Of those 350+ boats I dont think we have a single boat with a composting head.

Also as a broker, engineering school dropout, and realist... There is no such thing as ROI on a boat for systems like that. You only get real ROI from cosmetic upgrades (paint, detail, canvas, carpet, etc...) Stuff like repowers, solar, wind, electronics, etc... give pennies on the dollar in real value and nobody is buying boats with shabby canvas stained carpets, etc...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by FutureStories

...Ive yet to hear someone who went composting that went back. However the statistic of 25% of boats having composting heads I think is FAR off reality.

I’m pretty precise with my language with I refer to this sort of thing. What I said, and what this data says, is that 25% of respondents to this CF poll report having a composting head. How this extrapolates to the broader cruising community is unknown, but I really doubt if 25% of all cruising boat have composting heads.

In my previous yacht club up on the Great Lakes there were three boats (including ours) with CHs. This was out of about 250 total boats, but perhaps 50 that I would consider ‘cruisers.’ Most were racers or day sailors.

In my current club in Newfoundland I bet we’re the only one with a composter. But then, we’re one of the few with any sort of holding tank at all. Most boats are direct discharge …. which is why we never use the water in the marina water for anything

[RainDog]

For sure I believe most full-time boats are direct discharge.

In my current 80-slip marina, which is nearly 100% liveaboards (the vast majority of who are loopers in transit), I have only heard (it is loud) the pump out used 4 times in the 2 months I have been living there. Twice it was me using it. I would not hear it if I am below, but if even half the boats were pumping out, I would have heard it a lot more often.

I have found this to be fairly typical in the marinas I have been in with lots of cruising boats.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

For me, it would be a definite plus to see a composting head already installed. So I guess it would depend on the market, the location, and the customer.

Composting heads are more common than some here seem to think. Even based on a survey conducted here on CF last year it shows nearly 25% of respondents use a CH.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ve-184086.html

If 5000 were queried and only 20 responded and of those, only 25% had composting, the numbers don't reveal much.

I have no doubt (or wishes) that someday we'll have a greener system that supports the environment w/o the hassles/image that go with composting - whether they're just perceived or not. I have to say, I go/have gone on lots of boats over the years and none had composting. But I've also never been aboard a boat with foils, and I"m told they are much more common now! :-)

I'd hate to think about folks discharging overboard anywhere near civilization :-(

Regards,

[alaskaflyfish]

So there you have it, a love/hate relationship with composters. Whatever side you fall on, do what is best for you now and don't worry about a hypothetical future buyer. That being said; politics shape the future and the future is zero discharge in US waters. Also, Raindog's response was apropos concerning changing out everything in a traditional head anyways just because I don't want somebody else's used poop tank and pluming in a new (to me) boat.

[john61ct]

Since I will be using a "composting" head, a quality unit already well installed would be a plus.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by LeeV

If 5000 were queried and only 20 responded and of those, only 25% had composting, the numbers don't reveal much.

Uhmm, yes … Like I say, I am pretty precise when referring to this kind of data. At last count the poll says of the 177 CF respondents, nearly 25% report using a composting head. That’s all that can be definitively concluded; that 25% of respondents report using a composting head.

It’s one data point that would be hard to extrapolate. Aside from all the selection bias and other uncontrolled components of this survey, I speculate that one reason for this higher-that-expected number is possibly due to the large number of American east coast cruisers here on CF. Given the laws, and apparently tougher enforcement in that area, it makes sense that there are more CH users in this group.

Regardless, I stand by my personal observation that CHs are more common out there in the cruising fraternity than most people realize. And as more areas clamp down on discharge practices, I predict the numbers will continue to rise.

Originally Posted by LeeV

I have no doubt (or wishes) that someday we'll have a greener system that supports the environment w/o the hassles/image that go with composting - whether they're just perceived or not. ...

I always stress; a composting head is really not about ‘going green.’ A CH is not necessarily any more environmentally friendly than other MSDs. It all comes down to how the end product is disposed of.

There are many good reasons to switch to a CH. I’ve listed my top five reasons many time. ‘Going green’ doesn’t make my list.

[R1Guy]

Clearly, I hit one of those many sore subjects. Now I know, never talk about religion, politics, or composting heads!

Really appreciate all the feedback and I think it helped me lock in on what I will do....

For my situation:
1. Living aboard in RI which is entirely a no discharge zone
2. Living aboard through New England winter with pumpouts winterized (will use marina heads as often as possible, but need backup for early mornings and snow storms)
3. Based on the feedback I got from brokers which was basically..."great questions, Ive never had a boat to sell with one so I don't know what to tell you"
4. Based on the cost to convert 1 head to composting and cost to convert back if needed....

While I had planned on ripping the entire system out over time, I think instead I will remove only the single head and associated hoses (they need replacing anyways) and replace with a compost. I will leave the 2nd head intact and the tank in place. This way, if it is an issue in the future it will be a cheap and easy conversion back for resale if it becomes a roadblock. Having at least one composting will make winters much better, and during the summer I'll have the normal vacuflush for use AND for visitors who may not be comfortable. I'll leave all the electronics in place for the vacuflush I remove.

Appreciated both the pro-composting and anti-composting points of view. Seems like this path is a nice middle ground with easy and cheap reconversion if needed. Thanks all!