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Old 29-05-2011, 12:12   #16
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

my side by side test came up with vinegar cleaning my tankage and jugs longer than did chlorine. the chlorine tank came back with algae within 2 weeks, whereas the vinegar treated jugs are still clean 1 yr later. yes i use mine frequently if not constantly.
for the tank, i had to run the water as i was filling to purge the cleaned mess out of my tank. then fill as normal. no vinegar smell or flavor in tanks and they stay clean a loooong time. vinegar changes the pH of the system whereas bleach only makes things turn white and LOOK dead.
we did testing in hospitals when we found our ice macines were carrying bacteria and came up with same findings many times.. the normal cleaning stuff doesnt work as well as it is cracked up to working. fair winds and smooth sailing.
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Old 29-05-2011, 12:55   #17
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

Unless you were taking on unpurified well water, or contaminated water while cruising out of the US, there's no way you could have followed the directions for recommissioning the system and get that result, Karen. And unless your tanks are translucent and sitting in the sun, algae couldn't grow in the tanks either, because algae needs light.

The directions I posted have been the accepted method for recommissioning potable water systems for decades...you'll find 'em on a zillion RV websites, and in a number boat owner manuals (which is where I first saw 'em--the owners manual for a 1985 SeaRay). It's not method for purifying water, only for decontaminating/recommissioning potable water systems...and when done correctly, the results last for up a year...even longer in cooler temps...UNLESS you take on contaminated water. Then it becomes necessary to do it all over again. Taking on well water that has not be purfied or filtering water before it enters the system can also shorten the time...but not to the extent that you describe.
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Old 29-05-2011, 13:17   #18
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

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Originally Posted by clifford sloan View Post
When living aboard and chartering our water tanks got used enough to not have to worry about "standing water problem" but just to be sure we add a fifth of gin to each tank when they got down low enough to hear the slosh. Maybe that's why we had such happy guests? Seriously gin workks!
All the best,
Clif
Somebody (me) inadvertently opened the water filler which is about 20 cms from the diesel filler (Even though one is red and the other blue) and started to fill it with diesel (I had had a bad day) I don't know how much went in but enough to contaminate the whole system including the forward water tank.

We flushed and flushed for hours over several days using running water from the dock, we tried chlorine to no avail it then smelt of diesel and chlorine.

Then a helpful Greek man in a Mediterranean chandlers said put a bottle of ouzo in it. I had a half bottle so in it went and we left it overnight with both tanks turned on and under pressure. next day pumped it out through the taps, Replaced the water twice and by now it smelt of ouzo, a couple of days later no smell of ouzo chlorine or diesel. I think that definitely also killed the bugs or at the very least gave them a hangover so they could not hold on with the pump working
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Old 29-05-2011, 14:08   #19
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

I second zeehag's recommendation, we use a combination of vinegar and bleach to kill e-coli, in the domestic water wells around here, in the spring to shock the well. I like vinegar a lot better than bleach for the water system purification, it does not introduce a caustic poison into your system, which will eat up your plastic bits. Bleach does eventually gas off, but why put it in your system in the first place?
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Old 29-05-2011, 16:05   #20
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

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I second zeehag's recommendation, we use a combination of vinegar and bleach to kill e-coli, in the domestic water wells around here, in the spring to shock the well. I like vinegar a lot better than bleach for the water system purification, it does not introduce a caustic poison into your system, which will eat up your plastic bits. Bleach does eventually gas off, but why put it in your system in the first place?
Stick with the Ouzo ( Strong Greek Alcoholic Libation for those who don't know
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Old 29-05-2011, 16:08   #21
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
I second zeehag's recommendation, we use a combination of vinegar and bleach to kill e-coli, in the domestic water wells around here, in the spring to shock the well. I like vinegar a lot better than bleach for the water system purification, it does not introduce a caustic poison into your system, which will eat up your plastic bits. Bleach does eventually gas off, but why put it in your system in the first place?
Vinegar also good for cleaning the heads, followed by a small dose of olive oil for the seals and pump lube
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Old 31-05-2011, 09:47   #22
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

my study was done in sd while i was there---the vinegared jerry jugs are still clean and my water tanks are still fresh. i did my study about a yr ago.
combining bleach and vinegar together makes a salt and water combo-- negates effect of both.\
i love having had chemical engineer and mechanical engineers in my upbringing.. learned more than the average rug rat......but i will never write a book..
the ouzo is great for being oblivious to entire problem..LOL
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Old 31-05-2011, 10:07   #23
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

Combining bleach and vinegar creates an even more lethal gas than bleach and ammonia, Karen!

Chlorine bleach contains sodium hypochlorite or NaOCl. Because bleach is sodium hypochlorite in water, the sodium hypochlorite in bleach actually exists as hypochlorous acid:NaOCl + H2O ↔ HOCl + Na+ + OH-


Hypochlorous acid is a strong oxidizer. This is what makes it so good at bleaching and disinfection. If you mix bleach with an acid, chlorine gas will be produced. For example, if you mix bleach with toilet bowl cleaner, which contains hydrochloric acid:
HOCl + HCl ↔ H2O + Cl2


Chlorine gas attacks mucous membranes, such as your eyes, throat, and lungs and can kill you, so causing that reaction isn't in your best interest. If you mix bleach with another acid, such as the acetic acid found in vinegar, you get essentially the same result.

I wouldn't do it.
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Old 31-05-2011, 14:43   #24
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

It is best to remember that the by-product, Chlorine Gas, was used as a lethal war gas in WW1. Furthermore, being heavier than air, it settles into low areas in lethal concentrations and would require considerable forced ventilation to remove.
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Old 31-05-2011, 23:28   #25
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the combination of bleach and ammonia, was what generated the poison gas. Bleach by itself is deadly enough.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:59   #26
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

There's more than one poison gas....bunches of 'em, in fact. Bleach and ammonia create ammonium chloride gas. Bleach and vinegar create chlorine gas.

When organic matter breaks down in anaerobic conditions, it doesn't have to be combined with anything to generate hydrogen sulfide and sulfure dioxide, both of which are also poisonous gasses.

And fossil fuel combustion produces carbon monoxide, also lethal.

So it's best not to mix any chemicals together and make sure you're always in a well ventilated place.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:13   #27
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

Thanks for the information. After reading about zeehag's experience with vinegar, I was planning on using it only for my fresh water system. I have used vinegar/water mix to kill mold on the household walls, no reason for it not to work on the potable system as well.
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Old 01-06-2011, 15:26   #28
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
my study was done in sd while i was there---the vinegared jerry jugs are still clean and my water tanks are still fresh. i did my study about a yr ago.
combining bleach and vinegar together makes a salt and water combo-- negates effect of both.\
i love having had chemical engineer and mechanical engineers in my upbringing.. learned more than the average rug rat......but i will never write a book..
the ouzo is great for being oblivious to entire problem..LOL
Yes but I don't drink the ouzo belonged to somebody else LOL but it really did work how it worked I don't know. I can only recount what happened
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Old 01-06-2011, 15:40   #29
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

rofl-- drink the ouzo-- by the time you have done the glass of ouzo, th tanks are clean-- this works for me--- withut the ouzo..LOL..i have enough stuff to do sober--i dont need the fun of being without compus mentus ..LOL... but..... for me, vinegar works quite nicely.
bleach is a strong base, as is lye, otherwise known S SODIUM HYOCHORITE,and draano is lye.LOL. bleach is chli=orine somehong--id ont care the numbers and chemistries-- our junior hi chem project was to muix clorox and vinegar--LOL.. we got a salt and a liquid. the liquid was...ta daaa--- water..LOL..... soooo--have fun arguing with me-i am not arguing--i am stating fact. white vinegar is 4 percent acetic acid solution. that means the acetic acid was diluted with water. lolo. chlorox is chlorine bleach. now ye mis dilute solutipn of acetic acid with a diute chlorine solution, ye gts salt and liquid the liquid is stable in composition. have fun, evwn a kid can perform this experiment in home situations. is all good. i dont and wont write a book as i am not willing to undergo that mayhem. i will write here to help those who wish to learn what does work. i managed post anes care for 2 yrs during wihich we had to study the cleaning of our ice machine, as all the ice emachines in all hospitals breed germms. lots of em. we studied aand cleanedTHEN STUDIED THEN CLEANED THEN STUDIED AGAIN. BLEACH DOES npthing EXCEPT RUIN MACHINERY.,
SORRY BOUT THE CAPS--I DONT MEAN TO BE LOUD--I JUST CANNOT TYPO-- THIS IS TIME NUMBER 5 I HAVE TRIED to avoid caplock--isnt gonna happen--sorry-- we found bleach to be ineffective. is fact,and found by mor ethan one hospital to be fact. is also public record and can be found on exploration of any hospital's records. these studies are done monthly-- at least when iwas manager, they were, as well s after, when ui chose to bedside in emergency room for 6 yrs. goood luck and have fun. i just reported what i learned and did with good results- i had BAD results from chlorox. sorry, peggy, is fact. sodium hypochlorite is LYE. not chlorine bleach. sorry, is fact.
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Old 01-06-2011, 16:04   #30
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Re: Cleaning the Fresh Water System

Can You Mix Clorox Bleach With Vinegar for a Cleaning Solution? | eHow.com

Even Clorox's own website says mixing Clorox with acid or ammonia will produce harmful gases--possibly the commercial strength products will produce more chlorine or chloramines, but even common Clorox bleach will, though perhaps not in lethal concentrations unless in a confined area (chlorine is lethal at one part per thousand in air).

Quote:
Q: Are there any specific health hazards associated with the use of Clorox Commercial Solutions® Tilex® Disinfects Instant Mildew Remover? A: Clorox Commercial Solutions® Tilex® Disinfects Instant Mildew Remover label warns to avoid prolonged breathing of the vapor and it is not recommended for use by people with chronic respiratory or heart conditions. As with many bleach-based products, Clorox Commercial Solutions® Tilex® Disinfects Instant Mildew Remover is an eye and skin irritant and will form hazardous gasses (chlorine and chloramines) if mixed with acid or ammonia containing chemicals. Always use product as directed on label.
Clorox Professional Services - FAQs
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