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Old 18-05-2015, 13:10   #31
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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1. In fact, I would say that preventing exposure of humans to untreated sewage is one of the key things that makes a country civilised.

2. Why don't you ask the sailors who are facing competing at the next Olympics, in a bay that is essentially a sewer, what their opinions are on sewage treatment.
Mark,

1. Richardson Bay after a rainfall. I know we haven't seen rain in quite a while. That sewage treatment plant is a joke.

2. Can't disagree. Kinda like that idiot Seth Blatter making the womens' soccer (football) teams play on artificial surfaces. They oughta make HIM play on it.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:11   #32
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

Captain-Avenger,

Well... "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but name calling will never hurt me."

Excuse me for telling it like it is for 99.9 percent of the boaters around the world. Please... continue to live in your pristine fantasyland.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:18   #33
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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. . . In areas where water is contained with little or slow volume exchange, such as in enclosed anchorages and contained marinas, overboard discharge is going to cause environmental and aesthetic problems. In areas where water flow is sufficient, such as a few miles off shore or (I assume) in areas Ken is talking about in the Med (I've never been there) dumping a little poop overboard would likely be more environmental friendly than concentrating the sewage and transporting it to an onshore waste disposal system.
Voice of reason.

The solution to pollution is dilution.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:18   #34
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

Friends recently chartering a 50' Voyage catamaran in the Bahamas were dismayed to hear there was no blackwater holding tank. $17,000 for a week and another $3,500 tip to dive into feces impacted water every morning? They counted over 50 catamarans and with a number of occupants averaging 6-8 each I can only imagine the amount and types of bacteria present. Who, amongst us feels swimming in high concentrations of untreated waste is OK?
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:21   #35
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

Tough question. People's needs and desires vary hugely. My boat is the same size and i have 90 gallons and it's loads. In fact, i rarely fill them.

Most cruising boats don't have a holding tank. I would guess yours is only there to satisfy the law. You're required to have one in US waters (which is one of the reasons why virtually no cruisers ever go to the States) and for stuff like the Panama Canal transit. But then, for that you can get away with a bucket with a seat on it.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:23   #36
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

Read your biology books. Any discharge is consumed by the ocean biomass within 100 ft of your boat. It's actually beneficial if done in small amounts and macerated. If it wasn't, wouldn't the ocean be completely filled with fish crap by now? Put on your thinking cap.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:26   #37
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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Captain-Avenger,

Well... "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but name calling will never hurt me."

Excuse me for telling it like it is for 99.9 percent of the boaters around the world. Please... continue to live in your pristine fantasyland.
I believe I called it "like it is." You brag about dumping waste where others will come in contact with. You think there is nothing wrong for somebody to swim in your feces. These are facts that you brag about...that is not name calling. The fact that my dog knows where it is appropriate to go, and he knows not to go in the house...that is just another fact...and probably 99.9% of dogs know better than to go in the house. But if you believe that 99.9% of all boaters world wide think that it is OK to dump feces anywhere they want, and do all the time like you do...well, that just shows who is living in a fantasy world. You may wish it were that way to justify you doing it, but it is not reality. I don't remember seeing an awful lot of posts in this thread of people saying "yeah, I dump my crap everywhere I go also." If everybody did that then boating as we know it today would not be allowed to exist.

Sorry if you thought I was name calling...I just thought it was restating facts as you had already laid them out. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you because I am limited by the size of my holding tank, whereas you have no such limitation.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:27   #38
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

I would suggest that those with the opposing opinions here recognize that we're speaking of a dynamic balance where organic wastes can be harmless or concentrated to a degree causing disease and eutrophication. People seem to ignore the continuum between. Some conditions can allow for little concern for holding tanks and pump outs, while others require measures to be taken. Those holding a fast unwavering opinion are not accounting for all the variables.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:29   #39
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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I would suggest that those with the opposing opinions here recognize that we're speaking of a dynamic balance where organic wastes can be harmless or concentrated to a degree causing disease and eutrophication. People seem to ignore the continuum between. Some conditions can allow for little concern for holding tanks and pump outs, while others require measures to be taken. Those holding a fast unwavering opinion are not accounting for all the variables.
Thank you
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:31   #40
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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Friends recently chartering a 50' Voyage catamaran in the Bahamas were dismayed to hear there was no blackwater holding tank. $17,000 for a week and another $3,500 tip to dive into feces impacted water every morning? They counted over 50 catamarans and with a number of occupants averaging 6-8 each I can only imagine the amount and types of bacteria present. Who, amongst us feels swimming in high concentrations of untreated waste is OK?
the better not to drink it, it's salty anyways. Besides it's better to dive becouse sh** mostly floats. And think about all the fish there crapping all the time. White beaches of fish poob...
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:32   #41
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

Does untreated sewage in the water effect the ability of a water maker to provide safe drinking water ?. Never been able to find out what exactly will or will not pass through a water makers filter. For this reason I tend to try to make water when on pasage in open water areas.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:46   #42
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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Does untreated sewage in the water effect the ability of a water maker to provide safe drinking water ?. Never been able to find out what exactly will or will not pass through a water makers filter. For this reason I tend to try to make water when on pasage in open water areas.
Sodium ions are too large to pass through. We're talking very small atoms are too large. Make water where ever you like, but the only problem you'll encounter is your prefilter getting clogged frequently if there's too much sediment or visible stuff floating around in the water. It won't however, effect the quality of the water you make unless there's something wrong with the membrane.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:46   #43
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

It's really interesting reading all the posts for and against overboard discharge. The fact is, it is only an issue in the US. I can see why. You have lots of protected waterways with very little flow in or out, not to mention freshwater lakes with none. If the nationalities of the world were represented equally or proportionally on this forum, it would be a non-issue.

Here in Bermuda very, very few boats have holding tanks and even fewer use them. We have several locations where boats congragate in large masses regularly during the summer months. On one day of the year about 40,000 people congregate and spend the entire day from dawn until dusk peeing and pooping directly into the water in one bay. The Bermuda Institute of Ocean Sciences has an ongoing study that focusses on these areas of aggregation (one of which - Paradise Lakes - is really quite enclosed) looking quantitatively at bacterial species that are commonly found in human excrement. The vast majority or these species (some of which have been shown to be pathogenic) become non-viable within seconds, or at most minutes. There is one species which is tested for specifically because it has the longest survival in sea water of any bacteria so far discovered which is also found in human excrement. Elevated counts of this species can be found for up to 2 days. After that it's back to baseline. The concentrations needed to present a risk of pathogenicity are never reached even at the peak.

I have never heard of anyone ever becoming sick as a result of exposure to seawater containing effluence from yachts. If anyone can tell me otherwise i'm all ears. Otherwise, it's all down to personal and cultural preference and really a matter of individual comfort.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:57   #44
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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I would suggest that those with the opposing opinions here recognize that we're speaking of a dynamic balance where organic wastes can be harmless or concentrated to a degree causing disease and eutrophication. People seem to ignore the continuum between. Some conditions can allow for little concern for holding tanks and pump outs, while others require measures to be taken. Those holding a fast unwavering opinion are not accounting for all the variables.
Thank you for this post. I believe that dumping sewage at sea, or at least 3 miles from land is not a problem. I was taking exception to the "never" use a holding tank regardless of proximity to land or anybody else. I did a quick Google search on "raw sewage in the Mediterranean" and was surprised at the results, which I won't post out of respect for this file, but they are interesting none the less.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:57   #45
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Re: Capacity of holding tanks and water tanks

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This is my fourth season living in the Med, before that it was a season along the west coast of Europe. During this entire time, I've only seen one pump out station. See the boats in this picture.... there probably isn't a pump out station within 100 miles of them and the water looks pretty clear to me.

I consider Spain, Italy and the UK very civilized... no pump out stations. American environmentalists just like to make a big deal about nada.
I'm looking at over a dozen boats in your picture and all pointed to sea indicating an onshore breeze . With an average of four people per boat we are close to 50 peoples waste coming to shore at least twice a day. And you feel good about that? How many of those were on Chemo, antibiotics and other unnatural chemicals?
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