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Old 11-02-2015, 21:04   #31
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

Gone, Does the handle want to spring back up as you push it down. Does the problem occur only when the valve is set to pump the bowl dry? If so, you are pulling a vacuum on the top side of the piston. If this is the case, you're probably on the right track thinking about the air valve assembly.

The air valve is there to let air in to the top side of the piston on the down stroke when set to "dry bowl". On the up stroke the air is pushed out around the bowl rim.

If the problem occurs while the valve is set in normal flush mode, where water is supposed to come in, look for a blockage on the intake side.

If the problem happens with the valve set either way, the problem is probably the piston ring or cylinder.
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:09   #32
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

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Originally Posted by peghall View Post
You're right, but sometimes you have to "bend the rules" a little to solve an immediate problem...and his toilet pump held together with spit and bailing wire is almost certain to have a much shorter lifespan than any noticeable damage the mineral oil can cause. It needs lubrication NOW ...and mineral oil (in various applications including baby oil) is readily available in multiple retail stores almost anywhere in the world and will not only solve his immediate problem but keep it working till he can replace the pump.

So...while most definitely keeping your comments in mind, I'll still continue to recommend a shot of baby oil as an emergency lubricant but will also continue to emphasize doing it right -- a healthy shot of thick teflon or silicon grease once or twice a year as PREVENTIVE maintenance--'cuz sometimes ya gotta go with what you can get.

As I've gotten older I've come to realize that holding fast to an "only one right way to do it" mindset really limits my ability to provide useable solutions to immediate problems.
I used vegetable oil "because it was there", and because folks had previously warned me about petroleum products and rubber.

Thanks guys,

G2L
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:14   #33
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Gone, Does the handle want to spring back up as you push it down. Does the problem occur only when the valve is set to pump the bowl dry? If so, you are pulling a vacuum on the top side of the piston. If this is the case, you're probably on the right track thinking about the air valve assembly.

The air valve is there to let air in to the top side of the piston on the down stroke when set to "dry bowl". On the up stroke the air is pushed out around the bowl rim.

If the problem occurs while the valve is set in normal flush mode, where water is supposed to come in, look for a blockage on the intake side.

If the problem happens with the valve set either way, the problem is probably the piston ring or cylinder.
Thanks. I backed off the nut holding in the air valve assembly, but so far, the problem still exists. Will back it off a bit more to see what happens. Got a feeling that I have the mechanism locked up too tight to function correctly.

And, yes, the handle wants to spring back on the downstroke.

Lastly, never got that email from you w. parts list and cost. See your PMs for my email address.

Regards,

G2L
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:58   #34
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

I'd missed that your toilet is a PH II. It's impossible to over-tighten it, so backing out the nut won't solve the problem. The air valve (rubber piece) is either dirty or--more likely if it's more than 10 years old--has worn out. Try removing it and cleaning it...if that doesn't solve it, you'll have to replace the air valve assembly...it's part 1203 W 1203W-AIR VALVE ASSEMBLY - Raritan Engineering $27.30 direct from Raritan. Hopcar may have it for less.

Fwiw, including the rebuild kit, if you have to buy a new air valve assy, you'll have already spent at least $75, plus whatever you had to spend to glue the pump housing back together. You could have bought a new Jabsco pump and base (reuse your bowl) for very little more...a complete new PH II pump is available from several sources for less than $200--and Hopcar could prob'ly do even better on either of those.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:14   #35
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

Thanks Peggie! Just sent him a quote on a complete pump and base.
Thanks for the tip on PureAyre. I'm about to re-order on gallons.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:17   #36
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

I forgot to mention that everyone who owns a marine toilet should also own Peggie's book.
Get Rid of Boat Odors by Peggie Hall
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Old 16-02-2015, 01:13   #37
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Replaced the air valve assembly and exit joker - still hard to pump downstroke

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
I'd missed that your toilet is a PH II. It's impossible to over-tighten it, so backing out the nut won't solve the problem. The air valve (rubber piece) is either dirty or--more likely if it's more than 10 years old--has worn out. Try removing it and cleaning it...if that doesn't solve it, you'll have to replace the air valve assembly...it's part 1203 W 1203W-AIR VALVE ASSEMBLY - Raritan Engineering $27.30 direct from Raritan. Hopcar may have it for less.

Fwiw, including the rebuild kit, if you have to buy a new air valve assy, you'll have already spent at least $75, plus whatever you had to spend to glue the pump housing back together. You could have bought a new Jabsco pump and base (reuse your bowl) for very little more...a complete new PH II pump is available from several sources for less than $200--and Hopcar could prob'ly do even better on either of those.
Hi again Peg,

Yes, I actually did replace the air valve assembly from a repair kit that was aboard. The assembly consists only of a nut, a little plastic washer and a tiny joker valve. They all looked in good shape, with the joker flexible and smooth.

I thought that putting the joker valve in wrongly or tightening the valve too tight could have caused the problem, but I reversed the joker valve and even pulled the entire assembly, trying to see if that could get the down stroke of the pump to operate more freely, but I could still not get the downward stroke of the pump to work. Just got a leak from where the valve assembly was, so I put the new parts back using the original orientation that I observed when pulling out the old, air valve assembly.

Perhaps the main joker valve on the exit hose is plugged up. However, that has been replaced by a new one as well. So I can't see why it would not be working.

The 1 1/2 inch hose line out is looped, but not much, and the system is not vented, as would be required in the US. If this is causing a vacuum, what is the remedy, if any?

The obvious remedy is start over from scratch, and, as noted in earlier posts, that is in the works. However, what about the meantime?

Any and all comments welcome.

G2L
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Old 16-02-2015, 02:35   #38
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

G2L,

You're doing good hanging in there. If you're in a hurry, PM Peggy. She knows so much!

Ann
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Old 16-02-2015, 02:50   #39
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

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G2L,

You're doing good hanging in there. If you're in a hurry, PM Peggy. She knows so much!

Ann
Thanks Ann. We are getting there slowly but surely. Lots of other little issues to solve, but learning a whole lot in the process.

G2L
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Old 16-02-2015, 11:26   #40
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Re: Replaced the air valve assembly and exit joker - still hard to pump downstroke

If it's not the air valve, back pressure almost always originates from a blockage downstream of the toilet. First thing to check is your holding tank vent. A vent line blockage will prevent air displaced by incoming waste from escaping, pressurizing the tank--the whole system--creating back pressure when you flush. A blocked tank won't allow a tank to be pumped out or dumped either...air to replace contents as they're pulled out has no way in, causing the pump to pull a vacuum after only removing only a gallon or two, if that much.

The two most common locations for a vent blockage on a sailboat are the vent thru-hull and the vent line connection to the tank. Poke around in the vent thru-hull first, using any tool that'll work--screwdriver, ice pick...I wouldn't have my face too close while you do it. If the vent isn't blocked, open the deck pumpout fitting to relieve any pressure before removing the vent line from the tank. Check that end of the hose AND the tank fitting for a buildup/blockage.

If a tank vent isn't causing your problem, mineral buildup in the head discharge hose can build up enough to close up the hose. You've had the head discharge off the toilet enough time that you should have seen enough of the inside of it to know whether that's even a possibility.
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Old 16-02-2015, 11:43   #41
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Re: Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

We too had a raritan base with a leak only visible when pressure tested.

Defender advertised them for about $40 last year. The plastic, a delrin derivative, becomes porous over time. Much cheaper and simpler to replace rather than repair.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 17-02-2015, 09:21   #42
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Re: Replaced the air valve assembly and exit joker - still hard to pump downstroke

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
If it's not the air valve, back pressure almost always originates from a blockage downstream of the toilet. First thing to check is your holding tank vent. A vent line blockage will prevent air displaced by incoming waste from escaping, pressurizing the tank--the whole system--creating back pressure when you flush. A blocked tank won't allow a tank to be pumped out or dumped either...air to replace contents as they're pulled out has no way in, causing the pump to pull a vacuum after only removing only a gallon or two, if that much.

The two most common locations for a vent blockage on a sailboat are the vent thru-hull and the vent line connection to the tank. Poke around in the vent thru-hull first, using any tool that'll work--screwdriver, ice pick...I wouldn't have my face too close while you do it. If the vent isn't blocked, open the deck pumpout fitting to relieve any pressure before removing the vent line from the tank. Check that end of the hose AND the tank fitting for a buildup/blockage.

If a tank vent isn't causing your problem, mineral buildup in the head discharge hose can build up enough to close up the hose. You've had the head discharge off the toilet enough time that you should have seen enough of the inside of it to know whether that's even a possibility.

Peg speaks the truth here. I have had this happen more than once, both with the outflow hose plugged up with crystals, and, other times with the vent plugged up. This last time it was the vent on my new/old boat. The vent hose was too small and it went downhill after leaving the tank, from the side, on the outboard side!! Guaranteed to plug.

After trying to force the pump (Raritan PHII) I cracked the base of the pump. Sound familiar. I replaced the pump - all of it and put in spares the rebuild kit I bought.

Then I uncovered the holding tank and it had a noticeable swelling. The vent was plugged and there wasn't a good way to unplug it. So I started unscrewing the "clean-out". I had almost a geyser, well, it was a geyser, of the yucky stuff.

I went over and pumped out the tank but that didn't work well because the vent was blocked. It did take the pressure off though. I am now installing a 1"ID hose, on the top of the tank, on the inboard side (so healing isn't as likely to plug it with a full tank), and keeping the hose 100% uphill to the house side. I really wish I could keep the line shorter and more of a straight shot for even better air flow to allow the aerobic critters to help with the odors but I am doing the best I can because I don't want a new hose going up through the middle of the berth.

Another time I spend two days in a Mexican anchorage swinging my 1 1/2" outlet hose on to the deck to break out the uric acid crystals that had built up. One of my worst two days on a boat ever. Best to do the preventative maintenance on that one.

BTW - bought Peggy's book. Pretty small, and lots of it are already well known, but sure are some real nuggets in there even if you think you know it all.
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Old 21-02-2015, 03:23   #43
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Blockage Seems to be the Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
If it's not the air valve, back pressure almost always originates from a blockage downstream of the toilet. First thing to check is your holding tank vent. A vent line blockage will prevent air displaced by incoming waste from escaping, pressurizing the tank--the whole system--creating back pressure when you flush. A blocked tank won't allow a tank to be pumped out or dumped either...air to replace contents as they're pulled out has no way in, causing the pump to pull a vacuum after only removing only a gallon or two, if that much.

The two most common locations for a vent blockage on a sailboat are the vent thru-hull and the vent line connection to the tank. Poke around in the vent thru-hull first, using any tool that'll work--screwdriver, ice pick...I wouldn't have my face too close while you do it. If the vent isn't blocked, open the deck pumpout fitting to relieve any pressure before removing the vent line from the tank. Check that end of the hose AND the tank fitting for a buildup/blockage.

If a tank vent isn't causing your problem, mineral buildup in the head discharge hose can build up enough to close up the hose. You've had the head discharge off the toilet enough time that you should have seen enough of the inside of it to know whether that's even a possibility.
The system has no vents or tank. It has just a hose leading out of the toilet into the seacock. That said, and judging from your explanation above, it seems that I am experiencing a blockage in the line somewhere. Will try clearing the sea cock as you suggest.

Thanks again,

G2L
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Old 21-02-2015, 03:59   #44
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Re: Replaced the air valve assembly and exit joker - still hard to pump downstroke

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
Peg speaks the truth here. I have had this happen more than once, both with the outflow hose plugged up with crystals, and, other times with the vent plugged up. This last time it was the vent on my new/old boat. The vent hose was too small and it went downhill after leaving the tank, from the side, on the outboard side!! Guaranteed to plug.

After trying to force the pump (Raritan PHII) I cracked the base of the pump. Sound familiar. I replaced the pump - all of it and put in spares the rebuild kit I bought.

Then I uncovered the holding tank and it had a noticeable swelling. The vent was plugged and there wasn't a good way to unplug it. So I started unscrewing the "clean-out". I had almost a geyser, well, it was a geyser, of the yucky stuff.

I went over and pumped out the tank but that didn't work well because the vent was blocked. It did take the pressure off though. I am now installing a 1"ID hose, on the top of the tank, on the inboard side (so healing isn't as likely to plug it with a full tank), and keeping the hose 100% uphill to the house side. I really wish I could keep the line shorter and more of a straight shot for even better air flow to allow the aerobic critters to help with the odors but I am doing the best I can because I don't want a new hose going up through the middle of the berth.

Another time I spend two days in a Mexican anchorage swinging my 1 1/2" outlet hose on to the deck to break out the uric acid crystals that had built up. One of my worst two days on a boat ever. Best to do the preventative maintenance on that one.

BTW - bought Peggy's book. Pretty small, and lots of it are already well known, but sure are some real nuggets in there even if you think you know it all.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I definitely relate ...

Best Regards,

G2L
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