Can Cracked Toilet Base Be Fixed, Sealant Needed for Repair Kit?

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Peg Hall is right: you need the entire lower assembly. And, you can buy it brand new for $220: Raritan Pump Assembly Complete F Phii Phiipump | eBay

I used this complete assembly about 3 years ago to revitalize my PH-II which needed repairs (following about 22 years of faithful service on my own boat, with only minor replacements during all that time).

There comes a point where it really doesn't make sense to play around with, e.g., adhesives, gaskets, etc. Buy a new assembly and save yourself a lot of headaches. And, keep the spare parts for, well, spares :-)

Bill

Thanks, sounds like the way to go, longer term. In the immediate future, the only solution is to install the rebuilt, repaired head and hope for the best. See my related "leaky toilet" thread, for more.

Thanks to all for your insights and advice.

G2L

[jaybird1111]

if you're anywhere near the Biloxi MS area, I've got two heads (both Jabsco, one electric, one manual) that I'm selling - I've replaced with C-head

Contact if interested via PM/mail link here at CF

[HopCar]

I'm late to this thread but I would love to help you with this. I carry both PHII complete pump assemblies and bases in stock.

The sealant won't hold for long. As Peggie said, you will need to replace the cracked parts, probably sooner than later.

I also stock Peggie's book which everyone who owns a boat with a toilet should have.

[exMaggieDrum]

I just replaced (not repaired the pump housing base) of our PHII. The pump is not terribly high pressure, but it is high enough that you will not successfully repair the housing (assuming you have a crack in the pump body at the base and not just one of the corners of the pump body). I doubt a repair would survive a couple of flushes, especially if you have been constipated for a while and things are a little more dense than sometimes.

I have rebuilt many PHII with the seal kits. They are a lower cost maintenance item. I was hoping to use a new kit to repair my pump but realized it was not going to happen so I put the seal kit in the spares and bought a new pump assembly.

You can try repairing the pump body but I predict you will waste a lot of your time, put in a new kit which by then you may damage removing it from the old pump (and cleaning) to repackage and put in spares. The parts are extremely pricey but reasonable when you compare the Raritan to other models. It is definitely one of the best for what it does.

Necessary evil on a boat. I have done this so often I could probably put new seals in in the dark with my hands behind my back while tying a bowline at the same time.

[peghall]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Thanks, sounds like the way to go, longer term. In the immediate future, the only solution is to install the rebuilt, repaired head and hope for the best.

The problem with the "only fix what breaks" approach to maintenance and repairs (which include replacements) is, breaks are guaranteed to occur at the least convenient time to fix 'em...or when there's no way to fix 'em for at least three days--a favorite trick of toilets when there are at least three people aboard, three days from port. Otoh, you get to do preventive maintenance on YOUR terms...thus minimizing the odds that a break will occur.

Your comments make it obvious that cash flow is definitely tight right now, but it's ALWAYS cheaper and easier do to anything right the first time than it is to do it over. So even if by some miracle your jury rigging does manage to buy you some time, even the small amount is money you're spending on it is money you could have spent--SHOULD have spent--on the new pump.. So unless you're willing to risk the full bowl of your worst nightmares ending up all over your head sole, you really need to find a way to replace the pump now instead of putting ANY of your hard earned money into what is literally a "crap shoot."

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by peghall

The problem with the "only fix what breaks" approach to maintenance and repairs (which include replacements) is, breaks are guaranteed to occur at the least convenient time to fix 'em...or when there's no way to fix 'em for at least three days--a favorite trick of toilets when there are at least three people aboard, three days from port. Otoh, you get to do preventive maintenance on YOUR terms...thus minimizing the odds that a break will occur.

Your comments make it obvious that cash flow is definitely tight right now, but it's ALWAYS cheaper and easier do to anything right the first time than it is to do it over. So even if by some miracle your jury rigging does manage to buy you some time, even the small amount is money you're spending on it is money you could have spent--SHOULD have spent--on the new pump.. So unless you're willing to risk the full bowl of your worst nightmares ending up all over your head sole, you really need to find a way to replace the pump now instead of putting ANY of your hard earned money into what is literally a "crap shoot."

I understand completely. But, it's not just cash flow that is the problem; it's a matter of "non-availability." Would have to order it from US, pay shipping and 50% luxury tax, plus wait for the deed to be done. Short term fix is only option, at the moment.


Thanks for your help.

G2L

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by HopCar

I'm late to this thread but I would love to help you with this. I carry both PHII complete pump assemblies and bases in stock.

The sealant won't hold for long. As Peggie said, you will need to replace the cracked parts, probably sooner than later.

I also stock Peggie's book which everyone who owns a boat with a toilet should have.

Please send me a private message. Include a part illustration for the pump base, with measurments, and price included. Also, do you ship internationally?

Thank you,

G2L

[a64pilot]

Not trying to be cute, but have a back-up plan, maybe a bunch of plastic bags or something

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Not trying to be cute, but have a back-up plan, maybe a bunch of plastic bags or something

What a good, practical idea! Maybe G2l could have PortaPotty bags mailed to him, "just in case."

[HopCar]

Hi Gone2Long, I'll send you my direct email address. It will be easier to send you information that way. Yes we do ship internationally.

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Gang,

Am posting the below as a separate thread, as nobody yet has attempted answers to these two questions, and I don't want these critical issues to get "lost in the sauce".

Firstly, I have cracks in my Raritan PHII, toilet base and at the bottom of the pump housing. Have gooped them up big time w. marine epoxy, and I am wondering if anyone has tried, or has any faith in such a solution.

Also, have three repair kits, and none of them have suggested use of silicone sealant at any of the junctures, yet, past repairs indicate that sealant was used on the square, pump housing to base gasket, over the male, intake and outtake leads where hoses are attached, over the toilet bowl gasket, and over the male lead to the exit hose.

Is such use of sealent necessary to prevent leaks, was it used to ease on the hoses, or is it simply overkill?

G2L

Repaired the toilet replacing all O rings, hoses etc., which took care of the related leaks, and my marine epoxy repair on the cracks is holding well at least for the moment. Will order a new pump housing and base when possible, and keep them as a backup.

Also, the stringers were replaced by a pro, and I did a lot of carpentry work myself strengthening the wood base for the toilet and surrounding structure.

The repaired toilet worked fine at first, but after a few uses, the pump has become very difficult to operate on the downstroke. Does anyone know why this is happening and/or have a solution?

Thanks again,

G2L

[peghall]

The repaired toilet worked fine at first, but after a few uses, the pump has become very difficult to operate on the downstroke. Does anyone know why this is happening and/or have a solution?

Manual toilet pumps require lubrication to eliminate friction between the seals & o-rings against the inside of the pump cylinder. Removing the top of the pump and and putting a healthy squirt of thick teflon or silicone grease into it every few months is the best/easiest way to keep a toilet pumping smoothly...but since your pump is literally held together with spit and bailing wire, it's prob'ly best not to take anything apart. So buy some mineral oil (vegetable oil only as a last resort 'cuz it can get rancid unless used up quickly)...baby oil is mineral oil and available in most grocery and drug stores...flush a tablespoon--NO MORE, it'll just wash out with the first flush!--down the toilet once a week, more often if the toilet starts to squeak or becomes hard to pump, to keep the pump lubricated. Without any lubrication the friction will wear out the seals and o-rings very quickly.

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by peghall

The repaired toilet worked fine at first, but after a few uses, the pump has become very difficult to operate on the downstroke. Does anyone know why this is happening and/or have a solution?

Manual toilet pumps require lubrication to eliminate friction between the seals & o-rings against the inside of the pump cylinder. Removing the top of the pump and and putting a healthy squirt of thick teflon or silicone grease into it every few months is the best/easiest way to keep a toilet pumping smoothly...but since your pump is literally held together with spit and bailing wire, it's prob'ly best not to take anything apart. So buy some mineral oil (vegetable oil only as a last resort 'cuz it can get rancid unless used up quickly)...baby oil is mineral oil and available in most grocery and drug stores...flush a tablespoon--NO MORE, it'll just wash out with the first flush!--down the toilet once a week, more often if the toilet starts to squeak or becomes hard to pump, to keep the pump lubricated. Without any lubrication the friction will wear out the seals and o-rings very quickly.

Yes, one of the first things I did was put a bit of oil into the works. But, I think that the current problem may have to do with the rebuilt "air valve assembly" that I installed.

Please see my response to GordMay on the "Leaky Toilet Rotting My Stringers" thread, and tell me what you think.

Thanks, as always, for your advice.

G2L

[hellosailor]

peg-
IIRC, mineral oil, like all petroleum products, will cause rubber seals and rings to swell and deteriorate. Making it a bad thing to put into any system with O-rings of "rubber-ish" origin. Synthetics like Teflon or silicone grease, perfectly safe.
In desperation, maybe a plant-based oil or some margarine, but not mineral oil.(G)

[peghall]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

peg-
IIRC, mineral oil, like all petroleum products, will cause rubber seals and rings to swell and deteriorate. Making it a bad thing to put into any system with O-rings of "rubber-ish" origin. Synthetics like Teflon or silicone grease, perfectly safe. In desperation, maybe a plant-based oil or some margarine, but not mineral oil.(G)

You're right, but sometimes you have to "bend the rules" a little to solve an immediate problem...and his toilet pump held together with spit and bailing wire is almost certain to have a much shorter lifespan than any noticeable damage the mineral oil can cause. It needs lubrication NOW ...and mineral oil (in various applications including baby oil) is readily available in multiple retail stores almost anywhere in the world and will not only solve his immediate problem but keep it working till he can replace the pump.

So...while most definitely keeping your comments in mind, I'll still continue to recommend a shot of baby oil as an emergency lubricant but will also continue to emphasize doing it right -- a healthy shot of thick teflon or silicon grease once or twice a year as PREVENTIVE maintenance--'cuz sometimes ya gotta go with what you can get.

As I've gotten older I've come to realize that holding fast to an "only one right way to do it" mindset really limits my ability to provide useable solutions to immediate problems.