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Old 09-12-2009, 18:02   #16
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Reasonably priced fridge/freezers
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Old 09-12-2009, 18:23   #17
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Reasonably priced fridge/freezers
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As a liveaboard I want more than a $1000 plus fridge, with poor insulation that can store not much more than a dozen beers.

They are great for a weekend, but so is a good esky and block ice, with a lot less expense and breakdowns.

How much refrigeration do you have at home, bearing in mind that the shops, (fresh food) are probably 5 minutes away.

Now how much do you think you may need to live on the hook comfortably for a month or more when the nearest shop may be days away?
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Old 09-12-2009, 18:40   #18
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Snip..

How much refrigeration do you have at home, bearing in mind that the shops, (fresh food) are probably 5 minutes away.

Now how much do you think you may need to live on the hook comfortably for a month or more when the nearest shop may be days away?
I find it's a nightmare. Finding enough space for fresh and frozen food to feed a crew of 4 plus me, for 6 weeks is the worst part of voyage preparation

Thank god for UHT and powdered milk

P.
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Old 09-12-2009, 18:59   #19
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Now how much do you think you may need to live on the hook comfortably for a month or more when the nearest shop may be days away?

I live aboard my boat 6 months a year. I do not go into marinas during this six months except to clear in in Nassau. I have WAECO freezer with a spillover front loading fridge. We have enough aboard to last 2 months. Our insulation isn't the best but we manage to keep up with a wind generator and a Honda. I suggested a look a Engels because they are very energy efficient as a freezer. A household fridge/freezer is highly impractical for cruising sailboats. If you're going to be tied up at a marina with shore power fine but if you're cruising in a forty foot boat it won't work.

Many folks initially have highly unrealistic expectations of the cruising life. If you want all the comfort and conveniences of home there are two solutions, one- lots and lots of money and and and a large boat with a generator running 24 hours or two- stay at home.
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Old 09-12-2009, 19:27   #20
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Rick really now there are more choices then that my good man......cruise the PNW in winter...it will be around 15 degrees tonight with a high of around 25 tomarrow just use any o'l place on the boat ya want for your ice cream..
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Old 09-12-2009, 19:38   #21
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I live aboard my boat 6 months a year. I do not go into marinas during this six months except to clear in in Nassau. I have WAECO freezer with a spillover front loading fridge.
We have enough aboard to last 2 months. Our insulation isn't the best but we manage to keep up with a wind generator and a Honda. I suggested a look a Engels because they are very energy efficient as a freezer.
Interesting, any research I have done and vessels I have been on with specifically, waecos and engels, are lacking due to the poor insulation properties and size.
If 25 to 35mm of foam is sufficient why do all the experts suggest 100mm as a minimum unless using VIP's?

I have no doubt that they are relatively efficient, but they are too small for my requirements.
I have had small bar fridge style fridge freezers on board before and they never had enough cold, especially when 3 people are pulling beers out every hour and replacing them with hot ones.

And when catching a decent fish that produces several meals, suddenly I have no room for my icecubes for the afternoon G&T's and Mohito's.
And what do I do with the crayfish I already have in there?

Quote:
A household fridge/freezer is highly impractical for cruising sailboats.
I agree, for a sailboat that leans and is limited in size but so is a fridge that I cant keep a continual cold carton of beer in PLUS food.

Quote:
If you're going to be tied up at a marina with shore power fine but if you're cruising in a forty foot boat it won't work.
Are you sure about that?
I have liveaboard friends now on a 40 foot cat that have a household unit, fridge AND freezer on board and they havent been near a marina in years.

Quote:
Many folks initially have highly unrealistic expectations of the cruising life.
I have done a bit over the years, not as much as some, but a lot more than others.
Being a boatbuilder by trade I have also seen a lot of vessels that fail miserably in the refrigeration department when they start doing long hot cruises in the tropics

Quote:
If you want all the comfort and conveniences of home there are two solutions, one- lots and lots of money
I though we just showed that to be incorrect.
A large 12 volt system costs about $3000 to $5000 plus power to run it also costing a few thousand dollars.
A comparable sized energy efficient household unit costs about $700 allowing $5000 or more for solarpanels, or genny with fuel to run it AND any other appliances (occasional A/c, Occasional Washing Machine, Computer, Still)


Quote:
and and and a large boat
I am building one now, around a large fridge/freezer, a 4 meter rigid dinghy, a king sized bed and not much else.

Quote:
with a generator running 24 hours
A major exaggeration dont you think?

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or two- stay at home.
Why do we always end up with this comment?
Its as if you are suggesting only those that are prepared to have limited or reduced comforts on board have a right to be on the water.
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Old 09-12-2009, 20:40   #22
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Very polite and cool headed responses Cat...Good on ya!..Your a good egg...we are all friends here..I for one want to anchor next to the guy with the endless supply of cold beer!...see ya soon buddy..
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:56   #23
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The Painful Truth

Would a household refrigerator work on a sailboat? Yes, if you live at the dock and don't go sailing. Like rope would be cheaper than braided stainless steel stays for rigging, home fridges are cheaper than marine refrigerators. At home, central air keeps the environment cool with low humidity for the fridge. On a boat, temps can rise above 100 and the humidity can be 90 percent. The home fridge never moves. On a boat, the home fridge will launch itself across the cabin if not bolted in, the doors will fly open spilling your expensive supplies all over the cabin and the compressor will die if it gets over 5 degrees off level.

A marine fridge will use 1-2 amps on an average hourly basis on 12 volts. The home fridge won't run on 12 volts so you'll have to keep the generator running all the time when away from the dock or if you are stupid enough to use inverters, you'll suck your batteries dry overnight and you'll be dead in the water. Try using your sideband to call for help with dead batteries. With extensive inverter use to keep household appliances working, you'll kill batteries in a year or two. Get out your wallet to replace those!

A good marine refrigerator (like an Isotherm) uses the Danfoss compressor that comes with a five year warranty because they simply don't fail. The home refrigerator uses a cheap piece of junk that won't stand up to the marine environment and the warranty is voided for marine use. The Danfoss will keep working at heels up to 30 degrees and when the pounding at sea is so bad it will knock your fillings out. The home fridge wants to go home to mommy.

The marine refrigerator uses factory injected, closed cell foam that has superior insulating properties over the panels or sheets you get from home depot for your "home made" fridge or the fiberglass batting used in home fridges. The marine fridge uses 316 grade stainless steel and composite materials to reduce the effects of corrosion. The home fridge turns into a rust bucket. The marine refrigerator has a positive latching door designed to keep your jar of pickles and bottles of milk and wine safe and secure with cradles and adjustable holders. The home or RV refrigerator requires you put a latch on it because it will fly open and put your pickles and milk on the cabin floor and everything falls over on the cheap door shelves. So if a guest or young Johnny forgets to latch the fridge and after you mop up the pickle and milk juice and air the boat out for a month, you can just go to the supermarket on Staniel Key and buy all new supplies. Oh, I forgot, there's no supermarket on Staniel Key and a jar of pickles is five bucks IF they have it.

The Engle and Norcold use an electronic compressor that works fine under light circumstances like a picnic or at an RV park. Alternating magnetic fields drive the compressor piston but looses efficiency and gobbles up power and makes noise when it gets hot. You stay awake at night wondering what the heck that noise is. It's cheap but if you have boating experience, cheap usually costs more in the end.

Finally, look close at the products you buy. It is smarter to use distributed marine refrigerators and freezers that are smaller and can be installed under a bunk or in the lazerette than one behemoth home fridge that, when it konks out in rough weather, will take hundreds of dollars of supplies with it. You'll be popular with fellow cruisers when you pull into Mag Bay and have to empty your fridge and freezer for a beach BarBQue before you head back to San Diego to buy a proper marine refrigerator eating crackers and canned food all the way... .
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:09   #24
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Hey CatManDo: Please. A cat is a platform for landlubbers. Cats skuttle from one protected anchorage to another looking to avoid the weather. You certainly don't want to be caught in nasty weather on a catamaran. Read that book about the cat that flipped in New Zealand and you'll think twice if you're the fat guy and your buddies are looking at you like dinner after a few days. You are building a power cat which is not a sailboat anyway so you're making a condo that floats - you can use all the home appliances you want. In the end, you're better off staying home and buying a time share condo on the beach and forgo the problems you'll encounter if you ever leave the dock for more than a couple of hours.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:29   #25
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:45   #26
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Hey 7sees.
You jumped in with guns blazing.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:58   #27
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My experience is with sailboats, monohulls. I see many cruisers now who have large powerboats (50+feet) and some do run the generators 24 hours a day (air conditioning,electric stoves). These were not around twenty years ago. Just go into a popular anchorage in the Bahamas and you will see them. These are not crewed boats but privately owned cruisers. The mega power yachts (crewed) that are now more prevalent in the Bahamas certainly do. They anchor a bit further out in some anchorages but in other anchorages they come in very close.

My Adler Barbour will keep ice cream hard. The freezer is big enough for meat for two for two months and two trays of ice cubes. I often joke that I bought the boat because of the fridge. The only problem I've had with the A/B in five years is that I had to replace the little fan that draws cold air into the fridge.

Quite a few sailboats are now getting the Engel units as a supplemental freezer. And they work fine.

If you are living in a marina on a sailboat it's a very different life from living on a hook. It's just like living in a small house ashore. Any shoreside appliance will and can do.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:54   #28
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That's not a good place for an extinguisher. Its best to place them a safe distance away from fire sources. It right next to a microwave, an oven and the refrigerators compressor motor.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:44   #29
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Most everyone missed a simple point. MOST marine refrigerators use seawater to cool. 1) it's much more efficient, and 2) if you use a traditional refrigeration, you are dumping that hot exchanged air into your living area. Good luck with that.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:20   #30
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Guess I'm totally stuffed then, with my inverters, domestic freezers and fridge, washing machine and dryer. Do you suppose I should stay at the dock instead of heading for the Chilean Canals and points west? I've roughed it, not even an icebox, limited water, rain collection systems etcetera but is voyaging only pure when you have to live with discomfort?

P.
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