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Old 15-02-2012, 11:00   #31
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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The short answer is... I haven't done it yet. I have some household weather stripping I was going to use but I'm still looking for the right adhesive and I haven't found a positive locking latch that I like. But mostly, I've been putting off the gasket install because I'm tired of working on the damn thing.
Im planning to use this for a lid:
RPARTS.COM - ABS Icebox Hatches

But they also sell gaskets Refrigerator Gaskets - www.rparts.com

and latches:

RParts.com - Brass Latch w/Striker
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Old 15-02-2012, 11:43   #32
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Re: Built a New Fridge

I just did a simple and not terribly scientific 24 hour test on the amperage draw for the fridge. I logged our amp/hr draw from our Link 10 at certain intervals. The only other DC draw during this time was cabin lights and I logged when they went on, how much they drew and when I turned them off. I added up their amp/hrs and pulled their draw out of the total. The water pump kicked on a few times but not enough to track. Based on my calculations, over the last 24 hours the fridge pulled 9.8 amp/hrs out of our battery bank. I'm pretty happy with that result. However, here's a list of caveats on why this is not a terribly realistic number long term:

* yesterday and today, the outside temperatures ranged from 45F to 50F and being Seattle, I don't think the sun ever hit the hull.
* the water temps here are 46F.
* the temperature inside our cabin is kept between 65F and 68F over the whole 24 hours
* there's only one person on board right now (me) and I was gone for a good part of the day. I opened the fridge whenever I needed something but it wasn't that often (< 10 times) and I never had to root for something all the way at the bottom.
* I didn't add any new items to the fridge that had to be chilled.
* this was only 24 hours, far too few data points to draw any long term conclusions from.

Those are pretty much ideal conditions for a fridge to be run in. I expect the real life cruising numbers to be higher. When I finalize the wiring on the hour meter on the compressor I'll post some more long term usage results.
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Old 15-02-2012, 12:01   #33
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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Originally Posted by janders View Post
The short answer is... I haven't done it yet. I have some household weather stripping I was going to use but I'm still looking for the right adhesive and I haven't found a positive locking latch that I like. But mostly, I've been putting off the gasket install because I'm tired of working on the damn thing.
I can't find it right now, but I remember running across a website that documented a refeer rebuild and I think they used some sort of non-stick (tape?) on one side and then squirted a load of silicone caulk all along the perimeter of the lid and then shut the lid. Once it set up, they opened the lid and trimmed off the excess that had oozed out, leaving them with a custom seal.

Very nice work on your part, by the way.
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Old 15-02-2012, 13:09   #34
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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Best bet may be to simply lay up a sheet of 1/4" plywood with glass like Nick did. Fair out the weave and shoot it with awlgrip or roll and tip. Then cut it up the sheet into the required pieces and stitch and glue together?
I did the fiberglass layup with 3/8" marine plywood before cutting the panels. There was no need for stitching but I had to cut some panels because they were too big to fit through the openings I cut them with a jig saw under an angle to optimize surface area and created a mechanism with holding bracket (mount it before cutting the panels, then remove and cut and then put the bracket back inside the box for perfect line-up) and cast epoxy plugs to be able to assemble and epoxy it with invisible joints inside the boxes.

The filleting, fairing, priming (with Awlgrip 545 primer) and Awlgrip finish coats were all done in place on the finished box.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 22-02-2012, 11:48   #35
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Re: Built a New Fridge

Just about finished with insualtion. I ended up using first a layer of Reflectix for a vapor and reflective barrier. Taped all the seams. Then I used 2 layers of Cryogel spaceloft on the bottom, that was all the material I had so I chose to put it on the bottom and along the hull side. Next I installed 2 layers of 2" pink board, Extruded Polyurethane foam. I used expanding foam to fill small voids and gaps. Once the insulating is done I should have 4" of foam on all sides with another roughly 1" of spaceloft on the bottom and hull side and a layer of reflectix. The next step will be to build and install the liner. I ordered a lid and frame from R-parts and will probably end up buying their pultruded FRP panels to build the liner with. Seems like the way to go as the panels are already gelcoated on one side so I can just glue together and fiberglass tape the seams. Once the liner is in Im going to glue in a piece of FRP tube that will run through the side of the box for the refrigerant rubing to pass through. I will like Nick fill the tube with expanding foam.
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Old 25-02-2012, 19:56   #36
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Re: Built a New Fridge

My question is one that somebody had before .... that is - why not lay your 10 oz fabric ( or mat) over the insulation and glass it up ? .. why the need for the plywood?

Your fabric and resin over anything should be more than strong enough for the inside of a fridge.

I do like your photos and presentation ! ... thanks
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Old 25-02-2012, 20:03   #37
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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My question is one that somebody had before .... that is - why not lay your 10 oz fabric ( or mat) over the insulation and glass it up ? .. why the need for the plywood?

Your fabric and resin over anything should be more than strong enough for the inside of a fridge.
Well, it's not strong enough for my preference. If you wet out 10 oz cloth and let it cure, you can roll it up. It would take a bunch of layers before it approaches anything similar as the laminate with plywood.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 25-02-2012, 23:09   #38
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Re: Built a New Fridge

I dont umderstand not using metal. The box above could be done with three pieces. Glued in. The entire bottom an th two sides one piece with 1" lip up. Drill hole and run drain with shut off valve on end of.line (or plug). Then.the last two sides. Thisakes me want move it up on the agenda just to show it.
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Old 25-02-2012, 23:18   #39
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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Originally Posted by bugmon View Post
My question is one that somebody had before .... that is - why not lay your 10 oz fabric ( or mat) over the insulation and glass it up ? .. why the need for the plywood?

Your fabric and resin over anything should be more than strong enough for the inside of a fridge.

I do like your photos and presentation ! ... thanks
You could definitely layup enough fiberglass directly on the insulation to be strong enough. If I was just mounting evaporator plates, I would have considered it. However, I was hanging a freezer bin off the side wall. I didn't want to have to worry about how many layers of glass would make it strong enough. 1/2" marine ply is overkill but I tend to sleep better with overkill.
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Old 25-02-2012, 23:24   #40
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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I dont umderstand not using metal. The box above could be done with three pieces. Glued in. The entire bottom an th two sides one piece with 1" lip up. Drill hole and run drain with shut off valve on end of.line (or plug). Then.the last two sides. Thisakes me want move it up on the agenda just to show it.
I'd love to see it. Stainless steel would be a really nice interior. However, the way you describe it couldn't be done on our boat because we had to build the box inside the hole in the countertop. We couldn't remove the countertop without destroying it or tearing apart the galley. So every piece we put in had to fit inside the opening. The bottom had to go in in 3 pieces just to get it inside the box.

There are probably ways to attach sheet metal that are strong and waterproof and don't require welding. However, fiberglass over marine ply is strong, watertight and within my skill set.

Please post here when you get yours done!
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Old 26-02-2012, 04:20   #41
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If I learned anything living aboard all these years, it is about what to avoid.... metals are at the top of that list.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 27-02-2012, 13:59   #42
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Re: Built a New Fridge

Met with my friend from Maritime Plastics in Annpolis this weekend to discuss the liner for my box. He is advocating the use of 3/16" or 1/4" ABS plastic. His suggestion was to solvent weld it with an acrylic glue he uses on this stuff. Made it sound pretty simple and very strong. One downside would be sharp inside corners that could I suppose trap dirt but I guess a bead of caulk might fix that? Most others I am talking to are suggesting fiberglass. Either striaght FRP panels or layup over plywood. It looks like if I buy the panels Rparts is selling which are already gelcoated in 1/8" FRP im looking at about $300 in panel plus shipping. I really like the sounds of the ABS route and Im sure it would be cheaper but I am reluctant. The hatch and frame I have ordered from Rparts is apprantly made of ABS too. Why do these projects always have to bring so many questions.
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Old 27-02-2012, 16:30   #43
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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Met with my friend from Maritime Plastics in Annpolis this weekend to discuss the liner for my box. He is advocating the use of 3/16" or 1/4" ABS plastic. His suggestion was to solvent weld it with an acrylic glue he uses on this stuff. Made it sound pretty simple and very strong. One downside would be sharp inside corners that could I suppose trap dirt but I guess a bead of caulk might fix that? Most others I am talking to are suggesting fiberglass. Either striaght FRP panels or layup over plywood. It looks like if I buy the panels Rparts is selling which are already gelcoated in 1/8" FRP im looking at about $300 in panel plus shipping. I really like the sounds of the ABS route and Im sure it would be cheaper but I am reluctant. The hatch and frame I have ordered from Rparts is apprantly made of ABS too. Why do these projects always have to bring so many questions.
Yes a plastics guy is advising you to use plastics... it's the only way he survives. I would not want anything else than fiberglass and would even return ABS hatch and frame is it's ABS.

Caulking the inside seams of the box?! brrrrrrrrrrrr..... my advice would be to buy an Engel box instead. Your new insulation would be ruined so quick that the whole project isn't worth the effort.

cheers,
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Old 27-02-2012, 19:50   #44
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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If I learned anything living aboard all the0 se years, it is about what to avoid.... metals are at the top of that list.

cheers,
Nick.
You avoid stainless? How do you do that?

and your last reply? Caulk isnt sealing the seams (from what I read of what he wrote) He only wants to use the caulk to round out the corners. Anyway...
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Old 27-02-2012, 19:58   #45
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Re: Built a New Fridge

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You avoid stainless? How do you do that?

and your last reply? Caulk isnt sealing the seams (from what I read of what he wrote) He only wants to use the caulk to round out the corners. Anyway...
Avoid as much as you can... I mean if you want an engine there's gonna be metal, but in many cases there are alternatives. Fiberglass for freezer boxes work 100%, dyneema instead of stainless shackles work better in many cases too.

I do not trust the whole idea of using pieces of ABS for a freezer liner. Caulking to round out corners is a recipe for mold and algae and bacteria to thrive. All that must be avoided, not helped. You want rock-hard materials in there, not caulking. Fiberglass with nice radius fillets is just perfect and can be done for a couple of dollars if it needs to be cheap, or just order it done when you want it easy. Unfortunately, getting it easy and quick for cheap is just not gonna work imo... as for so many things aboard.

cheers,
Nick.
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