Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-04-2009, 06:44   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Currently in the wind.....
Boat: Boatless
Posts: 26
Bladder or Tank for Waste?

I am about to replace my waste system.

Why I want to: The boat smells awful and the head fills up to about 1 inch from overflowing when sitting at the dock (I am assuming the lip of the head is 1 inch above waterline). The hand pump (jabsco) works intermittently. The boat has a bladder under the V-birth which has a eery crystalline residue on the outside of it and the hoses have a little seepage here and there.... did I mention the smell? The vent line is clogged and I am sure that the gasses from the anaerobic bacteria have found a different route out. Valves are very stiff, broke one handle already.

The system has not been used in a few years and I am not sure what was residing in the bladder for those years before I bought the boat. I have tried to flush the system to no satisfaction. The system is currently flushed and evacuated and waiting to be removed. Oh, and the boat smells.

My questions -

Should I put a hard tank in? Aerated?

What is the best setup for staying legal regarding discharge options?

How do I kill that smell?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions including pointing me to any threads that will guide me.
__________________

__________________
SaltSeaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2009, 07:23   #2
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
By the sound of it you need to completely rebuild (or perhaps replace) the head, replace the hoses and include vented loops to prevent back-siphoning and discard the old bladder tank. We use a Vetus bladder tank as a holding tank and, so long as its well secured, vented, and you use a good enzyme holding tank additive, and the tank is flushed well when it's pumped out, it has proven very satisfactory with little or no smell. (To be on the safe side, we have a couple of "bags" of activated charcoal enclosed in lenghts of my wife's old nylon stockings draped around the hoses to and from the holding tank that seem to be pretty effective.)

Use the Search tool to find more information on this site as the subject has been discussed at great length in prior threads.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte
__________________

__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2009, 07:42   #3
Registered User
 
markpj23's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Black Hills, SD
Boat: Now Boatless
Posts: 1,148
Images: 47
I can't imagine using a bladder for black water - for exactly the reasons you outline as the source of your misery. How can you ever truly empty a bladder waste tank? How can you effectively vent a partially full and partially collapsed bladder?

IMHO I'd chuck the whole thing and get a poly tank. I would also consider borrowing a trick from the RV community and install fixed spray nozzles in the tank to help flush out the solids. These would be piped into raw water of course.

Lots of info in previous threads on how to keep head odors at bay.

Good luck with it - I'm sure you can't wait to get that odor off the boat.
__________________
Mark
markpj23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2009, 08:01   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
First order of business is to toss the Jabsco overboard! Get a Raritan or a Lavac or virtually anything else but NOT another Jabsco. Proceed from there.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 03:56   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Currently in the wind.....
Boat: Boatless
Posts: 26
Its a #%@ing miracle! Bladder and hoses gone - smell gone, amazing. A poly tank and a decent head is the next order of business.
__________________
SaltSeaSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2009, 09:24   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: virginia
Boat: islandpacket
Posts: 1,833
When you get your new head, get one with the house hold size bowl. It will not be as large as home but it is much nicer than the standard marine size.
__________________
That derelict boat was another dream for somebody else, don't let it be your nightmare and a waste of your life.
Badsanta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2009, 08:59   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: pittsburgh PA
Boat: Nauticat 321 Pilothouse
Posts: 110
Send a message via AIM to MitchM
well even with a solid fibreglas tank, the old head hoses can and do build up an odor..so don't try to reuse them, get the new style marine sanitation hose which is best for head installs.
__________________
MitchM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2009, 09:03   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: pittsburgh PA
Boat: Nauticat 321 Pilothouse
Posts: 110
Send a message via AIM to MitchM
" The boat smells awful and the head fills up to about 1 inch from overflowing when sitting at the dock (I am assuming the lip of the head is 1 inch above waterline). The hand pump (jabsco) works intermittently."--

it sounds as though the joker valve in your jabsco isn't holding the hose contents from backflowing up into the bowl. if you keep the jabsco, get some replacements for the joker valve and other critical seals..
__________________
MitchM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 16:59   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
I really like the gravity feed system in my Beneteau if you will be cruising in areas where overboard discharge is legal and appropriate. It meets both holding and dumping needs as simply as I've ever seen.

If you have the room above water line - install a hard tank there. If the hose from the head comes into the top, you don't even need a vented antisiphon loop. From the bottom of the tank run a hose to the through hull which is hopefully a short straight run. To empty the tank, all you need to do is open the through hull. If it's always legal and appropriate, just leave the through hull open. No pumping required. Run a vent line as typical for holding tanks. Use good head hose. If you are in the U.S. - have a way to secure the seacock in the closed position to keep yourself trouble free with the coast guard. If you want a pump out option, run another hose from the bottom of the tank to the deck fitting for that.

I'm not as qualified to talk on the intake filling issue, but it seems to me you either need to raise the head or install an anti siphon loop on the intake side or get a head with a better seal at the dry/wet valve. I added an anti-sipon loop with valve on a previous boat I had and it worked fine. (The suction of pumping closed the valve on the loop to draw water) Other people have told me however, they never can keep the sipon loop valve working correctly with this set up.

If above waterline space is limited, consider either having a custom tank made or make your own epoxy/mat tank to fit.

What I love about the gravity feed system is no pumping, no rebuilding a bag pump (yuck) and it's quiet to discharge.


I'm no expert on heads, but have spent some time on the subject.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 20:13   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Our last boat had a bladder. It lasted about as long as the hose or maybe a bit longer. Bladders do work. That is unless you want to haul 100 gallons of sewage around. Nothing can stand up very long against human waste. Any run that can't drain completely will eventually permeate with stink. The best hoses just last longer. If you drain the tank and the boat still smells you know it 's time to rip it all out. If a moist rag rubbed over the outside of the hose smells it's time. Nothing on the planet will cure stink hose.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2009, 08:00   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
The specifics of what the coast guard accepts when securing the overboard option are listed in this thread:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...mor-25813.html
__________________

__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bladder Holding Tank gettinthere Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 16 23-10-2009 09:42
19 gal waste holding tank from Tartan 37 colemj Classifieds Archive 0 03-10-2008 07:41
Waste Tank Float Stuck rhottes Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 0 03-08-2008 12:01
How do you clean a new water tank/bladder? Lynx Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 1 22-05-2007 06:27
Waste Tank and Hose Replacement Project Latitude9.5 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 5 06-08-2006 12:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.