Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2011, 17:11   #61
Registered User
 
Capitain Mike's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Amorgos Greece Mediterranean Sea
Boat: Cobra 850
Posts: 249
Send a message via Yahoo to Capitain Mike Send a message via Skype™ to Capitain Mike
Re: Bilge Pump Non Return Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Blue Stocking, where do you get monel screen?
Web Page Search Shows.
monel screen wire - Google Search
__________________

__________________
"Money won't buy you happiness but it will allow you to buy a yacht big enough to pull up along side it"
"Please Lord be kind to me your sea is so wide and my boat is so small"
Capitain Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2011, 17:31   #62
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,355
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitain Mike View Post
You are right about the light,
I like the horn idea how about a 3 tone car horn. No I'm not joking
And how about a separate float switch that does nothing but turn the horn on ???
yep, i think that is more common on commercial vessels but a great idea. I have only used the Senior or Junior, plastic tube enclosed switches for years. great switches.
Bronze screen door mesh is still sold in good old fashioned hardware stores. I wouldnt go too fine a mesh though.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2011, 18:45   #63
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

I have had the opportunity to see many failed check valves over the years. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is that starting the small cheapy 12v plastic bilge pumps against a head of water (Weight) will shorten the pumps life expectancy.
__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2011, 18:54   #64
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

In cold climates, the water in the hose will fillup/freeze....then you have no bilge pump(s).

I have seen a couple boats with diaphagme pumps which eliminate the residual water.

Or use a manual bilge pump or wetvac.
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 04:57   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newport News VA
Boat: Egg Harbor sedan cruiser 1970
Posts: 829
Re: Bilge Pump Non Return Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitain Mike View Post
Web Page Search Shows.
monel screen wire - Google Search
I looked thru some adds and they want a lot of money for minimum orders.
So perhaps I can get something local?
How about stainless mesh?
__________________
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2011, 13:40   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

Stainless mesh might be a better option here: Check out either Mcmaster or Belleville Wire Cloth for this or the monel material. Not sure the difference between stainless and monel (other than the large difference in price), but if you need monel, then you have to pay the extra premium. Check here:

Custom Wire Cloth - Belleville Wire Cloth Co - Cedar Grove, NJ
__________________
jackcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 19:54   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Boat: Catalina 36 Mk I
Posts: 73
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

Thanks for all the knowledge shared in this discussion.

A little empirical experience from today:

I installed a new Rule 500 in my shower sump. As a matter of fact new everything from the battery switch, since I also pulled new wire and just rebuilt the electrical panel. Didn't like the backflowing water which half refilled the tiny sump, since the 3/4" discharge hose has a nice high anti-siphon loop. Got an in-line check valve with simple rubber flapper from Worst Marine, but it leaked back a constant drip that would have returned all the water in no time, so I yanked that out before I could even really tell if there was an issue with head pressure. Went to Ace and got a spring action valve: the Rule 500 could not overcome the head, which was about 3.5 ft vertical, 4.5 ft overall x 3/4" hose.

So while this is not a bilge story per se I can testify to the reality of the head pressure problem with a check valve.

But I am going to upgrade my bilge pump system after reading this discussion!
__________________
ChannelIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 20:12   #68
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Four years ago or so I had a single failed manual whale diaghram pump. Not finding a good rebuild kit I replaced the pump and inquired here on CF about adding an electric pump in the bilge inline with the whale. I didn't want to poke another hole in my boat.

I (probably correctly) was told how terrible this idea was and how I would end up sinking my boat, ruining the diaghram pump and the rule wouldn't overcome the head anyway.

4 years later the rule and the wobble pump are fine and the bilge is mostly dry as I do have the same backflow problem that OP has. In my case the amount of water does not reactivate the electric pump. My ingress in case anyone is wondering is a constant chasing of fresh water leakage around cockpit lockers - no amount of resealing lasts very long - grrrrr...

The only real learning on my part is that it is preferable to me to have a seprate float switch. The integral switch in my rule failed after 3 years and I installed a separate float switch, that when it fails, and I am sure it will, can be easily replaced.

On a bigger boat with multiple bilges I would not choose to put these pumps in line and would bow to conventional wisdom.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 21:59   #69
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,826
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

This looks like a good idea.
The company's solution is for high end boat owners, but anyone with a little ingenuity could make his own system.
It's basically a sponge on a stick/tube with a weight to hold it down.
Hook that to a self priming pump, put a timer on it.
Done, and congratulate yourself for a dusty bilge.

Pickup Types & Specs
__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 05:16   #70
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, jackcon and ChannelIslander.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 09:14   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1990 Irwin 43 CC
Posts: 50
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChannelIslander View Post
Thanks for all the knowledge shared in this discussion.

A little empirical experience from today:

<SNIP>
So while this is not a bilge story per se I can testify to the reality of the head pressure problem with a check valve.

But I am going to upgrade my bilge pump system after reading this discussion!
All very true. There are at various times 3 ways I solver that problem.
1- Use a diaphram pump like the whale gulper, with very narrow lhoses (3/8 id) on the inlet, and a check valve right at the bilge. The check valve is just to help priming. Whatever is in the hose section below the pump will eventually leak back.
2- Use a very small bulge pump, and run it to the bathroom/shower sump if you have one. You will effectively use 2 pumps, but will keep the bilge dry.
3- Just simply use the small Rule 500 on a narrow line and live with about 1/4 - 1/2 inches of water in the bilge.
The most effective is using (#2)

Of course this is assuming that you have at least one, if not 2 real Bilge pumps minimum 1500 + GPS (depending on the size of your boat,) to take care of the actual water influx
__________________
Ahmet, S/V Waterdancer 1990 Irwin 43 CC
Winthrop Yacht Club
Moderator BostonLiveaboards Yahoo Group
waterdancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:08   #72
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,355
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChannelIslander View Post
Thanks for all the knowledge shared in this discussion.

A little empirical experience from today:

I installed a new Rule 500 in my shower sump. As a matter of fact new everything from the battery switch, since I also pulled new wire and just rebuilt the electrical panel. Didn't like the backflowing water which half refilled the tiny sump, since the 3/4" discharge hose has a nice high anti-siphon loop. Got an in-line check valve with simple rubber flapper from Worst Marine, but it leaked back a constant drip that would have returned all the water in no time, so I yanked that out before I could even really tell if there was an issue with head pressure. Went to Ace and got a spring action valve: the Rule 500 could not overcome the head, which was about 3.5 ft vertical, 4.5 ft overall x 3/4" hose.

So while this is not a bilge story per se I can testify to the reality of the head pressure problem with a check valve.

But I am going to upgrade my bilge pump system after reading this discussion!
Yea, those little bilge pumps wont push back against much at all. Those spring loaded hardware store checkvalves take a lot to depress the spring. I've been successful with a plain bronze flapper (no spring)mounted horizontally if you have a horizontal hose run. Wanna get rich? Invent a marine positive displacement bilge pump with good output at a reasonable price and size envelope!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 12:19   #73
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,114
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

My bilges are 3 1/2 ft below the salon floor, with another 1 1/2ft up to the 1" diaphram pump. I have the gravity clapper type non-return between the strainer and the hose. The brass non return has had almost all the clapper material removed to make it as light as possible. The pump has little work to do to provide to reduced atmosphere in the hose to lift the clapper.
Keep in mind that those clappers are designed to withstand 100+psi back pressure. Thats 230ft of head, AAMOI
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 16:56   #74
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
All these posts and no one has solved the problem. The second, low capacity pump installation is slightly inelegant imo. I am reading in fascination and scratching my head like others. It is always useful to remember the problem we are trying to fix.

- problem. The hose leading from the pump to the thru hull holds enough water to lift the switch and cycle the pump back on when the water drains back into the bilge

What about a double pole solenoid with two switches. A high switch that closes a solenoid to power the low switch. When the high switch makes it closes a solenoid powering the low switch, the solenoid power circuit is run through the low switch so it is made until the low switch breaks i.e. when the solenoid closes the circuit is completed through the low switch to both power the pump and act as a holding relay for the solenoid. When the low switch breaks, the solenoid is depowered and wont be repowered until the high switch makes again.

This is basically what the float switch does mechanically - i.e. makes at 2 inches and breaks at 1 inch or something like that. You are just doing it electrically due to need for bigger throw.

Water will still run back into the bilge but the pump wont cycle until the high switch is again made.

Other than redesigning the bilge space to accomodate the back flow without rasing the pump switch I dont see another solution.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 17:10   #75
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Bilge Pump Non-Return Valve

stop all leaks and use a shop vac?
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bilge, bilge pump

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Freshwater Pressurising Pump Sends Water Down Pipe into Bilge GaryBmth Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 10 27-01-2012 17:54
Bilge Pump Problem Ironhorse74 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 12 04-08-2011 19:22
Bilge Pump Discharge at Waterline sandycohen Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 15 26-07-2011 09:23
Manual Bilge Pump Strainer waterbound Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 3 25-06-2011 15:45
Bilge pump battery bcguy Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 3 24-06-2011 21:30



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.