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Old 23-10-2013, 01:03   #16
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

Borocay, are your cockpit drains above the waterline?

Matt
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Old 23-10-2013, 01:06   #17
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Hello Cruisers,

I have a choice of exit points for our manual and electric bilge pumps.

Currently I have both exiting the boat on the starboard side, about 6 inches above the waterline and about 6 inches apart.

However, I also have an exit point for the old eutectic refrigeration system at the stern, offset from the centerline by about 6 inches, and about a foot or so above the waterline.

I have removed the refrigeration system completely and will never replace it, so I was about to glass over that hole. Then it struck me that since I am completely replumbing/replacing our bilge pumps, maybe I should use that exit point for one of the pumps. It is a larger hole than currently used by either of the pumps, but that is easy enough to work around.

Also, we are a canoe stern, not sure if that affects anything.

Thoughts on this?

Matt
Now to throw a monkey wrench into your thought process.

A bilge pump by design is to remove incidental water from the bilge, that is aquired by shaft/rudder logs/Rain, and any other accidentals/design water inflow.

So it really doesn't matter the location of the thru-hole as long as it's above the water/heal line.


Now if you're talking emergency DE-watering devise, then that matters.

lloyd
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Old 23-10-2013, 01:14   #18
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

Sudden change in the wind, Channeled the waves up the inlet I was parked in, Threw the boat bodily up onto the rocky beach, Dragged both anchors and bent one,

I was parked in dead calm waters at the time,
The storm I was avoiding, levelled Port Stephens the night before,

Port Stephens has a cyclonic wind pattern that is not any where else in OZ,

Esmeralda Cove in Broughton Island, Is where I sank it,

3-50 AM. Dead Calm, Passenger goes back to bed, Both asleep,

4-00 AM, I am on the Rocks with a foot of water already inside the boat,

I am Definately Fully Awake at 4-00 AM, Its also Pitch Black,

I think I might be in the **** some what here, Hahahaha

Start to a fun day,
2 metre waves in a 3 metre dinghy looking for a rock or buoy to tie my boat too,
so I could drag it off the beach,

Ended up tying it to a Forestry B-B-Que table on the beach to stop it going sideways onto the Bigger rocks,

I would have got chaff back if that happened,

The Deck light thats half way up the mast was a Boon to have, It lit up the whole boat,
Making life so much easier, Not having to carry a torch everywhere,


Throws the light, a good way across the water as well,

Crackle on the VHS, Turn on the deck light, The ships know you have seen them,
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Old 23-10-2013, 04:40   #19
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

Below.
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Old 23-10-2013, 05:30   #20
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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Below.
Righto...so they do drain fast enough to handle the flow of the bilge pumps?

I have not tested ours yet, but I assume they would be too slow. I will check just for interest, but I reckon our cockpit design is sort of wrong for this idea being pretty high up and mid ships too.

Also, as clean as I try to keep our bilge it is not spotless and has contained traces of diesel from time to time. I would hate to find this sloshing around the cockpit floor(or the ocean for that matter).
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Old 23-10-2013, 05:35   #21
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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Sudden change in the wind, Channeled the waves up the inlet I was parked in, Threw the boat bodily up onto the rocky beach, Dragged both anchors
Oh bugger! Yes I think I remember reading your account of the event some time back. Had not made the connection. A lesson in the unpredictable effects of wind changes on anchoring from my memory?

Sounds like you can look back at it now with a pretty good mindset. I congratulate you, I am not sure if I would have had the courage to return to the water after such an event.

Matt
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Old 23-10-2013, 05:40   #22
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Now to throw a monkey wrench into your thought process.

A bilge pump by design is to remove incidental water from the bilge, that is aquired by shaft/rudder logs/Rain, and any other accidentals/design water inflow.

lloyd
Really? I think of a bilge pump as an emergency device. I am certainly specifying mine to be of some use should a fitting fail or we should somehow ship a lot of water, such as in a rollover. In the case of a rollover I would assume serious sea conditions hence my thoughts on the best exit point.

Matt
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Old 23-10-2013, 06:08   #23
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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I am absolutely loath to drill holes in the hull for additional pumps. One thought I have is to exit via the cockpit coaming, onto the deck. I think coaming is the right word....that bit around the cockpit that your sheet winches mount to. For others, we are talking centre cockpit on a swanson 42, with a raised edge/coaming around the cockpit. Any comments on such an arrangement much appreciated.
So the bilge water would simply dump out onto the deck, and then drain through the nearest scupper? Eeek. I hope you have absolutely immaculate bilges, otherwise you're going to have who-knows-what sloshing over your deck which could present a safety hazard beyond being an eyesore.

Common practice is is to loop the hose high and then exit a few inches above the waterline, usually along the rear quarter of the boat. Plumbed properly you won't have any back flow/siphon issues when heeling hard.

And yes, I like to be able to hear when my automatic bilge pump is operating. Saved the boat once when I heard it going...and going and going. If not for hearing that trickle I would not have discovered water pouring in through the shaft seal where an improperly adjusted locknut had spun clear off the fitting.

And no, emergency bilge pumps are not there to remove "incidental" water, but "accidental" covers some pretty wide territory right up to a catastrophic situation.
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Old 23-10-2013, 07:55   #24
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Oh bugger! Yes I think I remember reading your account of the event some time back. Had not made the connection. A lesson in the unpredictable effects of wind changes on anchoring from my memory?

Sounds like you can look back at it now with a pretty good mindset. I congratulate you, I am not sure if I would have had the courage to return to the water after such an event.

Matt
It was just one of those things that do happen,
I can get positive things out of the worst Catastrophes, But thats just me,

After 18 months of watching the weather there, They have Cyclonic weather there that is unpredictable other than it goes round in circles,

Which meant looking at the weather report in that area on the daily nightly news here,

I would have been dead if I had of tried to get to Port Stephens with that storm smack in front of me,
Dodgy steering, 12 nautical miles to Port Stephens, Min 3 hours on the motor away, Head On, into a 35 knot or above storm,

Warning Issued at about 5-00 PM By VRS As I was pulling anchor, This Very Very Black Cloud was between me and Port Stephens,

No Bloody Way am I going to sail through that Mongrel, So it was Esmeralda Cove or sail up and down behind the Island all night,

The storm leveled Port Stephens, From about 7 PM.

If my Boat had of been thrown a bit more to the side of the inlet, I would have been up on huge rocks,
The boat would have been matchsticks, My passenger and I would have been in Deep ****. Possibly stuck inside the boat, We will leave that one alone,

Being smashed about in big waves in big rocks amongst a smashed boats wreckage, and a vertical bank beside it, In 12 feet of water, At the end of an inlet,In two metre surging waves,

In Total darkness and no dinghy, It would have been a smashed wreck by that time,

We walked away from it, Good stuff,

My boat does sink, Air bags totally cure that problem, Good stuff, Before, I wasnt sure,

Its a solid sturdy boat that is safe to sail any where I want it to go now,

As a Baby, I fell over and smacked my face flat into the floor, It didnt stop me from walking,

I dont know how much skin I have lost from sliding down the road from falling off very fast motor cycles, I still ride them just as fast, The skin grew back,

Its all a learning Curve, I do know and am well aware of my Limitations, I just dont push them,

To put it in its Right Perspective, Would you stop driving, if you had a Bad car crash, Its the same thing, Sinking a boat, Its accidental, It Happens,
As long as you can walk away unharmed, Thats all that matters,
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Old 23-10-2013, 11:55   #25
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

G'Day Matt and Banjo,

Re the firehose discharge for a big engine driven pump: Remember that with a big pump there will be a substantial kickback in the hose, so you can not just lay it on the deck or whatever. It would have to be securely fastened down, and that does not seem convenient in an emergency situation.

Do try to keep the hose runs from the centrifugal bilge pumps as short as practical, and as free from bends and other restrictions as you can. The flow rate from such pumps falls off rapidly with any pumping losses or head to overcome.

Jim
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Old 23-10-2013, 12:27   #26
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

I use a 110 V pump, with a "get it out when you need it" hose at the dock. When the hose fills with water and gets heavy, and pulses, it is a pain in the butt to keep in place.

I don't envy the man who tries to work that kind of rig in a seaway.
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Old 23-10-2013, 16:15   #27
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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And yes, I like to be able to hear when my automatic bilge pump is operating. Saved the boat once when I heard it going...and going and going. If not for hearing that trickle I would not have discovered water pouring in through the shaft seal where an improperly adjusted locknut had spun clear off the fitting.
This is a really good point, and I solved it (I think) by fitting a buzzer to the float switch circuit of the bilge pump so if the pump is activated by the float then the buzzer will sound. I then wired this in parallel with the normal human-activated switch for the pump so that I can supress the buzzer by manually switching on the pump, and, of course, lighting up that switch on the utility power board. (I am also hopeful that should the pump be activated by the float while the boat is in her pen one of the regulars who live on board nearby will hear in and mention it to the main office who can call me and I can do something about it. OK, a few weak links in that chain, but I can hope...)

Matt
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Old 23-10-2013, 17:52   #28
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You should always try to discharge through the stern. A gaaod system is to get a short piece (sold by the foot in some places) of fiberglass exhaust pipe. Laminate a small piece into the stern so that a hose fits around it on the inside, and a standard rubber flap around the short stub on the outside.

For metal boats you can just weld a piece of the same material in.
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Old 23-10-2013, 18:04   #29
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Re: Best place for bilge pump exit

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You should always try to discharge through the stern. A gaaod system is to get a short piece (sold by the foot in some places) of fiberglass exhaust pipe. Laminate a small piece into the stern so that a hose fits around it on the inside, and a standard rubber flap around the short stub on the outside.

For metal boats you can just weld a piece of the same material in.
Thanks s/v Jedi. Would you consider a good quality skin fitting a reasonable substitute for the fibreglass exhaust pipe?

Matt
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Old 23-10-2013, 18:13   #30
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Thanks s/v Jedi. Would you consider a good quality skin fitting a reasonable substitute for the fibreglass exhaust pipe? Matt
If you find a way to attach the flapper to the outside of it.... The flapper blocks water ingress from waves slapping the stern.
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