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Old 17-06-2014, 05:54   #31
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Re: Best Head Hose

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post

** EG and PG are equal in bidegradability (the USEPA and European agencies have studied this in length in relation to aircraft de-icing--Google it).
** The are equal in marine toxicity (same studies and any MSDS). Anyone who says differently is either selling something or has not read the data.
** There is really no risk of mammal poisoning, because no one is drinking black water, and the system is even sealed during pump-out.

So stop using the "pink stuff" in the head. It is for potable water systems only.

Just a small point about the sealed system: that wouldn't be applicable always, since some are able to legally discharge or macerate overboard when outside the limit line. I don't think that makes any difference to your arguments.

I suspect cheap vodka would work in heads, too.

Not sure whether that would have any impact on joker valves and such...

-Chris
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Old 17-06-2014, 06:02   #32
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Re: Best Head Hose

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Well the time has come to replace hoses on my head. I have the "standard" white type head hose, you know the stuff that wouldn't bend and you can not really get a fitting to go into it without a huge battle:

So what is considered the BEST sanitation hose!!!!!!!!!!! Far as I'm concerned given the importance, length of time the hose really lasts, nastiness of the job, price of the hose is NOT a consideration.

In another thread, I mentioned Shields Extra Heavy Duty VAC Series 148 hose, which is also recommended for your application... I found it to be reasonably flexible for our installation in the freshwater system, and we didn't have any trouble slipping it onto fittings (with a little judicious help from the heat gun).

Don't know how that compares to Series 105/Poly X, though.

-Chris
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Old 17-06-2014, 09:13   #33
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Re: Best Head Hose

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
In another thread, I mentioned Shields Extra Heavy Duty VAC Series 148 hose, which is also recommended for your application... I found it to be reasonably flexible for our installation in the freshwater system, and we didn't have any trouble slipping it onto fittings (with a little judicious help from the heat gun).

Don't know how that compares to Series 105/Poly X, though.

-Chris
Just a heads up, that white hose will fail readily in service... especially if you used heat on it to get it on the fitting (which you almost always have to). If any of it is below waterline I would watch it very carefully. Don't ask how I know! ....Twice! It usually splits circumferentially right upstream from the clamp/barb fitting.
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Old 17-06-2014, 09:17   #34
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Re: Best Head Hose

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Just a heads up, that white hose will fail readily in service... especially if you used heat on it to get it on the fitting (which you almost always have to). If any of it is below waterline I would watch it very carefully. Don't ask how I know! ....Twice! It usually splits circumferentially right upstream from the clamp/barb fitting.

Thanks for the heads-up!

Actually, I put the heat on the fittings not the hose... although the result is probably similar.

What causes it to split? It's not under pressure, it's not overly flexed, it doesn't get any pink stuff... and it's already outlasted the OEM solution.

BTW, for OP, I just saw about a Practical Sailor study where Raritan Saniflex was found to be the most flexible. I didn't read the whole study, so don't know how it faired in the rest of their testing.

-Chris
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Old 17-06-2014, 09:28   #35
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Re: Best Head Hose

I have also experienced that hose failing easily. I also would not use it under the waterline. It is nice for some applications, and is in use on our boat, but experience has taught me its very real limitations.

I don't know why it fails like it does, but it inevitably does fail - suddenly and completely. I recently gently bumped a length of it connected to a thruhull (well above waterline and never immersed) and it simply snapped in half right at the interface of hose to thruhull.

Mark
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Old 17-06-2014, 09:31   #36
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Re: Best Head Hose

Useful to know, thanks, I'll keep an eye on it. In this application, nothing catastrophic happens if (sounds like when) it fails.

-Chris
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Old 17-06-2014, 09:49   #37
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Re: Best Head Hose

Yeah, it's weird.... the stuff seems as tough as bear hide when you are installing it. I had the same experience as colemj once.... bumped the nearly new hose that was on a rigid bronze seacock, and one side split spraying seawater like a shower! I think the problem is expanding it to fit. If it simply slips on it may be OK. But it seems to be made to the small side so that never seems to happen.
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Old 17-06-2014, 10:02   #38
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Re: Best Head Hose

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Just a small point about the sealed system: that wouldn't be applicable always, since some are able to legally discharge or macerate overboard when outside the limit line. I don't think that makes any difference to your arguments.

I suspect cheap vodka would work in heads, too.

Not sure whether that would have any impact on joker valves and such...

-Chris
* Vodka is much more expensive per unit FP than glycol. Even the very lowest shelf.
* Vodka is no more antiseptic than glycol. Google it. I have also tested this in the lab; diluted vodka ferments bad. It also corrodes brass/copper more than glycol.
* The effect on jokers is about the same, perhaps less than PG but more than EG. (I've tested this).
* No health effect differences.
* No after taste with either one, if installed properly.

I can't see an up-side, but I see several down-sides.

No, I doubt discharging one load outside the 3-mile line makes any difference in this thread.
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Old 17-06-2014, 10:05   #39
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Re: Best Head Hose

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... Don't ask how I know! ....Twice! It usually splits circumferentially right upstream from the clamp/barb fitting.
Yup.

I had it split between bulkheads (where's that smell?) while it was only a few years old. Fortunatly the split was above the waterline... though that did make troubleshooting take longer.

The only thing I will use white hose for is vents, where it is more resistant to colapse and permiation than clear vinyl.
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Old 17-06-2014, 10:32   #40
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Re: Best Head Hose

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The only thing I will use white hose for is vents, where it is more resistant to colapse and permiation than clear vinyl.
Just to be clear, we are talking about the white non-sanitation hose, correct?

I have never had that problem with the proper white sanitation hose (which costs bundles more than the above stuff).

Resistance to kinking and stiffness is also why I use it in particular applications.

Mark

Edit: I see they do recommend this for use below water line and for sanitation systems. That is scary.
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Old 17-06-2014, 11:42   #41
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Re: Best Head Hose

Wow - I just emailed the new owner of my last boat.

This white sanitation hose you guys are talking about is used on that boat to connect the cockpit drains to the through-hulls directly underneath, no seacock there either. This sounds like a terrible place to use that stuff if it is prone to sudden failure.

Pretty sure that the through-hull itself, which is fiberglass and integral to the hull, actually comes up a bit above the waterline, but still... What a time bomb.

-Chris
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Old 17-06-2014, 13:47   #42
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Re: Best Head Hose

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
Wow - I just emailed the new owner of my last boat.

This white sanitation hose you guys are talking about is used on that boat to connect the cockpit drains to the through-hulls directly underneath, no seacock there either. This sounds like a terrible place to use that stuff if it is prone to sudden failure.

Pretty sure that the through-hull itself, which is fiberglass and integral to the hull, actually comes up a bit above the waterline, but still... What a time bomb.

-Chris
For that application, I would only feel comfortable with Trident wire reinforced water hose or equivalent.

Mark
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Old 17-06-2014, 14:06   #43
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Re: Best Head Hose

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Just to be clear, we are talking about the white non-sanitation hose, correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Just to be clear, we are talking about the white non-sanitation hose, correct? That is scary.
In my case it was white sanitation hose, though the brand was not identifiable.

For the past 4 years I've been testing 5 sanitation hoses, both in matching test holding tanks and on my boat.

Sail Delmarva: The Easy Button

- clear vinyl (perm within months)
- Dometic Odor Safe (TOO stiff)
- Gates petroleum tank truck hose (I got a drop for free--it's doing well) (perm unknown)
- Trident 101 (durable, good value, hard to clean, stiff)
- Raritan flex (super easy to work with, no perm yet, easy to get back off)
- Shields Poly-X (expensive, stiff, easy to clean)

Honestly, the lower 3 are all good, with differing strengths. Just don't use the first 3. My choice would depend on the routing.

And yes, I switched the clamp after I looked at the picture.

Yes, the CG has seen my cable ties and was fine with that. They considered that "standard." There is a hole drilled in the handle.

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Old 17-06-2014, 14:29   #44
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Re: Best Head Hose

What's the oldest Trident 101 that you've seen?

Has anyone witnessed odor permeation of Trident 101? I haven't and have a 10 year+ piece in service.
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Old 17-06-2014, 15:10   #45
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Re: Best Head Hose

I changed out my head hose and used VETUS brand "Sani hose" which is very flexible and easy to fit. No heat needed. It lasted about 10 years and had necked down to about 1/2 inch. Just redid it with Trident ($ouch).

Anyone know what the compound is that cakes and closes off the hose? Calcium? Does it do the same on PVC?
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