Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-11-2011, 07:48   #76
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cambridge MD
Boat: Carter offshore 35
Posts: 333
Re: Best Diesel Heater

We now have an electric blanket that we use and it only takes 200 watts. keeps us nice and warm on cold nights and doesn't eat up as much gas in the Honda 2000 running the ceramic heater. Only problem is getting out of bed in the morning.
__________________

__________________
DeborahLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 08:25   #77
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy22 View Post

Where fossil fueled heaters in confined spaces are concerned, the potential for disaster is real, even though not always realized.

Yes, I agree completely. You need to be extremely careful with all the 'burning and high temperature' systems (propane, gasoline, diesel, and electric). They can all start fires, the first two can explode and the first three produce CO. I think I have said that above several times, that one needs to take due care.

A marine stove burner is putting out as much CO as a camping heater in a tent. Eventually you will create a toxic atmosphere in the boat.

We do (almost) all use propane stoves. In the warmer climates the boat is obviously opened up and so no problem, but lots and lots of us cook in colder climates with the boat buttoned up. And similarly there are a fair number of propane and kero heaters in operation. I believe we have a sufficient number of units in operation for the results to be statistically significant and not just luck based. The incidence of real problems on boats is essentially nil (Frz, yes, any/all fatalities would most certainly be reported to the USCG, they might miss one or two but the coverage would be complete enough for the results to be valid in this discussion).

Why is this? Probably because #1 most our our boats are not really very tight when buttoned up - what with dorades and hollow masts and leaky hatch boards and anchor chain pipes. And #2 most sailors are in fact taking due care and many turn these sort of things off at night (we usually do, but not always) and may have co sensors and may open a port when they are in operation.

Empirically/statistically fire is a rather bigger problem - with both liquid fueled and electric heaters. Again, this risk can be managed with due care is necessary - fire proof surroundings (often stainless or tile) for the units, fire extinguishers (perhaps automatic in some spaces like engine room), smoke and heat sensors, etc. But lets all be clear that electric cooking and heating is also not 100% risk free.

and portable multigas air quality sensors are available for a few hundred
dollars, if you are really curious.

I am not. I think the facts speak for themselves and I am quite comfortable with our level of risk management in this area. When we die I think there is a very low probability it will be on-board due to CO. But if one of the 'certain death' faction wants to make the case, I would be delighted and interested to see an air quality trace over time inside a 47' boat with (separately) #1 a propane stove and #2 a kero heater running, under various scenarios/levels of being buttoned up.

As an aside, I am aware that the Japanese use inside the home portable kero heaters quite a bit. And their homes are quite small. These units specifically have heat/smoke/co sensor fuel cut-offs built in. They have been quite successful in reducing what was a relatively high fire risk/incidence (lots of fully wooden houses with very flammable interiors). I have not seen (or looked for) Japanese CO data. MCA commercial approval was given to install three of these units as cabin heaters on a high latitude expedition yacht, when they would not approve a reflek with external venting.
This is a risk management issue, like most 'safety' issues. I agree with you and everyone who says there is a risk, and this stuff can be dangerous if treated casually. The only reason I popped into the thread was because of what I considered the 'extremist' language being used ('certain death' and such). I believe (and believe the facts show) that the risk can be (and in fact generally is) reasonably well managed. By that I mean to at least equal level to all the many other risks we face (like electrical fire or being hit while driving to the boat).
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 11:08   #78
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 10
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Excellent post, Evans. My only concern was that some might think that because the incidence of tragedy was so low, that the risk might be given a low priority. I can't help you with the air quality recording equipt, one would have to be several thousand dollars worth of curious, but CO and propane detectors are available for less than $40 and work like a smoke detector, alarming in time to correct a problem or escape.
__________________
timothy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 12:24   #79
Registered User
 
Me-and-Boo's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 298
Images: 19
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Diesel fuel puts out very little CO. Gas, propane, wood, coal, put out CO and kill. There is a little puzzle that puts this into play. The dead person was found in his car with a hose from the tailpipe into the closed car and the engine was running. What killed him? We know it was not CO because diesel does not produce enough CO to kill.
__________________
It didn't sink all the way - you can still see the mast
Me-and-Boo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 12:56   #80
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,761
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Best Diesel Heater

diesel not producing enough co to kill is a fallacy. sorry . that is how folks end up surprised for the last time in their lives. always ALWAYS keep an open ventilation port near your source of flame doesnt matter what the fuel source. ALL fuel produces enough co to kill.


btw--doesnt take much co to modify the intelligence quotient of your brain.
carboxyhebinoglobinemia is for loong duration.
co goes into your marrow cells , wherein the rbcs are formed. last person i treated for co poisoning was prognosed with having carboxyhemoglobinemia for the rest of her life. she was 30, with an anticipated 80 yr+ life potential based on her genetics.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 15:32   #81
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Just FYI . . . Summery of USCG findings, reporting on carbon monoxide incidents

Carbon Monoxide Concentrations at the Source
10,000 - 100,000 PPM Gasoline Engine
1,000 PPM Diesel Engine

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 15:45   #82
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,761
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Best Diesel Heater

so, ye think ye can sleep all night in a closed up boat with a diesel heater running.......
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 16:33   #83
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,673
Re: Best Diesel Heater

The USCG data above was for engines - not relevant.

There is a world of difference between burning diesel in an engine and in a heater. The high pressure/temperature in the engine leaves little CO in the exhaust. BUT in a heater it is much more dangerous. Remember, the heaters that killed so many people were kerosene - just one grade more refined than diesel.
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 16:34   #84
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: Looking for a new boat
Posts: 2,196
Images: 24
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post

btw--doesnt take much co to modify the intelligence quotient of your brain.
carboxyhebinoglobinemia is for loong duration.
co goes into your marrow cells , wherein the rbcs are formed. last person i treated for co poisoning was prognosed with having carboxyhemoglobinemia for the rest of her life. she was 30, with an anticipated 80 yr+ life potential based on her genetics.
Zeehag, I didn't know you and Gordmay were dating.
__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 17:22   #85
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,546
Images: 1
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
This is a risk management issue, like most 'safety' issues. I agree with you and everyone who says there is a risk, and this stuff can be dangerous if treated casually. The only reason I popped into the thread was because of what I considered the 'extremist' language being used ('certain death' and such). I believe (and believe the facts show) that the risk can be (and in fact generally is) reasonably well managed. By that I mean to at least equal level to all the many other risks we face (like electrical fire or being hit while driving to the boat).
How does any of this have anything to do with the OP's original question of what is the best diesel heater? The issues of fires, co2 poisoning can happen inside your house and car as well.
__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 17:48   #86
Registered User
 
jrd22's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Juan Islands, WA
Boat: 1988 Brewer Three Seas 40' Pilothouse
Posts: 251
Re: Best Diesel Heater

We installed a Wallas 40D diesel forced air system a few years ago in our 40' pilothouse. We must have several hundred hours on it now and it's been flawless. It kept the boat warm during a winter storm with temps in the low teens F. and constant 35 knot winds. It ran non-stop for 4-5 days that time. Very low power consumption (about 4-5 amps during start up and then .5 to about 2 amps depending on how high you set it). Fuel burn is very low, never got a good read on it because I've never seen the sight gauge on the tanks go down while using it (95 gal. tanks). Great support from Scan Marine while we were installing it, and since when we have had any questions. Well made unit, we're very happy with it.
__________________
John Davidson
S/V Laurie Anne
1988 40' Brewer Pilothouse
jrd22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 18:57   #87
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,761
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
Zeehag, I didn't know you and Gordmay were dating.
just dont tell him--might have a coronary artery occlusion....we dont want that.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-2011, 07:03   #88
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
so, ye think ye can sleep all night in a closed up boat with a diesel heater running.......
Well, yes, in fact we (and many other people) have and do. We have a reflek drip diesel heater. That's what and how they are designed for.

Bulletproof units, almost nothing to break, and quite safe. Based on actual experience, the main safety concerns are related to fire and not CO.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-2011, 08:44   #89
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
How does any of this have anything to do with the OP's original question of what is the best diesel heater? The issues of fires, co2 poisoning can happen inside your house and car as well.
well, other posters brought up the question of safety, particularily CO issues, with open flame heaters. My point in the post you are questionning was: "You need to be extremely careful with all the 'burning and high temperature' systems (propane, gasoline, diesel, and electric). They can all start fires, the first two can explode and the first three produce CO. I think I have said that above several times, that one needs to take due care." But "I believe (and believe the facts show) that the risk can be (and in fact generally is) reasonably well managed. By that I mean to at least equal level to all the many other risks we face (like electrical fire or being hit while driving to the boat). "

Responding to a question of safety for a type of heater within the definition of the OP seemed on topic to me. Sorry if you don't think so.


Relatedly, to having ports open:
"The Consumer Product Safety Commission recommends one square inch of open window in the room where the heater is being used for each 1,000 Btu of the heater's rated output. For example, if the heater is rated at 9,100 Btu per hour, and the window in the room is 24 inches wide, the window should be opened almost one-half inch. If the heater is rated at 20,000 Btu, that window should be open almost 1 inch."
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-2011, 09:18   #90
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Well, yes, in fact we (and many other people) have and do. We have a reflek drip diesel heater. That's what and how they are designed for.

Bulletproof units, almost nothing to break, and quite safe. Based on actual experience, the main safety concerns are related to fire and not CO.
There may be a little bit of mis-representation going on here - Here is a photo and link to the above "reflek" heater. In the link it is a vented heater - not - unvented heater which is what most folks consider dangerous.

Equipment: Comforts of the creature – choice and installation of diesel heater Hot Shot Kaskelot
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	305932087_aeccd6c884.jpg
Views:	791
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	34101  
__________________

__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel Rocketman Engines and Propulsion Systems 75 08-05-2016 20:31
Hybrid Propulsion - I Just Don't Get it twistedtree Engines and Propulsion Systems 38 19-06-2013 13:33
Want To Buy: Sig Marine Diesel Heater cburger Classifieds Archive 1 17-10-2011 14:56
Eberspacher Heater Tomtom39 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 0 16-10-2011 07:49
Do Not Use Biocide Journeyman Engines and Propulsion Systems 37 24-07-2011 19:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.