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Old 22-10-2011, 15:23   #61
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

Through this thread I have become aware of the Refleks heaters and would like to explore this brand further. I have been to the companies website and am finding it a little limited. Do any CF members know if there is an American distributer that has had long experience with this equipment were I might get a knowledgeable person on the phone, maybe some catalogs.
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Old 22-10-2011, 15:37   #62
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If you put in a diesel or propane heater, include a CO monitor.
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Old 22-10-2011, 16:13   #63
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

i always have a port open with heating devices and flames on board---even if just the port in my shower, and leave door open--when i use stove, i keep the overhead slier open for ventilation.... is important.
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Old 22-10-2011, 17:29   #64
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

We have a Dickinson Pacific. This is a diesel stove with an oven. It heats our 30' Rawson just fine, and has the benefit of being able to throw in a couple of spuds a couple of hours before dinner. We've baked bread, brownies, pizza, etc. Sometimes it's too warm on its lowest setting, so we just leave the cockpit door open. If sailing, one must be aware of the possibility of backdrafts and adjust window/port openings accordingly. Burning the stove too low results in sooting up, which leaves a mess on deck, so this needs attention. The stove can be bought with or without a coil in the firebox for heating water. We haven't hooked ours up, but would like to have the ability to have hot water on tap while at anchor (our engine heats water when running).
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Old 22-10-2011, 19:54   #65
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

Let's put it this way - anybody demanding proof positive whether this or that happens is getting a little bit too "out there." Statistics are gathered from "reported incidents" - many incidents are never reported mainly because there is no reporting agency or facilities to gather "all the incidents."
- - Common sense prevails and if you use an item that is labeled against being used in a sealed enclosure/area there is a common sense presumption that a hazard exists and you should be careful. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you use a high Btu hydrocarbon combustion device in a sealed room, you will not only deplete available oxygen but also build up carbon monoxide.
- - Generally speaking in boats, ovens and stove tops generate moderate amounts of heat and enough that hatches and/or portholes are opened to bleed off excess heat and allow fresh air into the boat.
- - And over-extrapolation of a discussion about space heaters into a discussion of marine stove/ovens is reaching beyond the reasonable. Nobody is talking about "any open flame" - heck, would you include lighting a match to light your cigarette?
Come on, be reasonable. . . rather than argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.
- - This thread is discussing the best or good marine cabin heaters for boats based on the experiences of those that have them. And a reminder that in a closed/sealed space like the interior of a boat the use of combustion devices designed for outdoors or camping are hazardous to your health and the reasons why.
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Old 23-10-2011, 07:18   #66
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

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Originally Posted by cburger View Post
Through this thread I have become aware of the Refleks heaters and would like to explore this brand further. I have been to the companies website and am finding it a little limited. Do any CF members know if there is an American distributer that has had long experience with this equipment were I might get a knowledgeable person on the phone, maybe some catalogs.
Hamilton marine is the US distributor. They are quite knowledgeable about the system.
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Old 23-10-2011, 07:39   #67
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

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Statistics are gathered from "reported incidents" - many incidents are never reported mainly because there is no reporting agency or facilities to gather "all the incidents." .
Actually, just fyi, pretty much ALL boating fatalities in the USA are reported to and by the USCG. Its useful reading.

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ome on, be reasonable.
Reasonable is exactly what I was trying to be.

I was trying to temper the pretty extreme comments about sure death ("most likely permanently solve your aversion to the cold - dead folks don't get cold.") and "Russian roulette" with a reasonable real world perspective - specifically:

#1 the USCG data indicates in 2010 there were in a grand total of 2 carbon monoxide boating incidents/injuries with no fatalities in either case (the report does not indicate if these incidents were due to engines or heaters)

#2 you suggest on average only 8 people die per year from propane heaters in the entire USA from all applications (including all the shore based applications)... a tremendously low rate given the number of units being used and that many/most of who are clearly not taking due care and doing really stupid things (for instance several were blind drunk). Many many more people die falling down stairs, in electrical fires, from kitchen knives, drowning in their bath tubs, etc. I don't think you would suggest one should not walk down stairs or that using kitchen knives represent Russian Roulette.

When we talk about risks, I at least, think it is reasonable and useful to actually quantity those risks to understand how significant they are.
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Old 23-10-2011, 08:53   #68
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

Hi. We have a Webasto in our 10 meter Catalac Cat. Hot air outlets on the floor at the forward corner of the Galley and the storage hallway and cold air return on the floor of the salon results in a nice even heat distibution. Fresh air to the combustion chamber comes from one side of the tunnel and exhust to the other side. In mearly 10 years of use it has never failed, had an odor or soot. Just lots of reliable heat. It is a little noisy - particularly when we ask for a lot of heat. We never leave the boat or go to sleep with it running.
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Old 23-10-2011, 11:12   #69
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

I have a Dickenson Alaskan in a 40Cape Dory that I only run at its lowest setting, more heat than I need with about 1 gallon of diesal for 24hours use. I have a heat powered echo fan on top that uses no electricity that spreads the heat around. There is a hot water coil in the chamber[factory installed]that I plumbed to my hot water tank that provides us with hot water. If your hot water tank is close the water will circulate by convection with no power use, my tank was too far away so I have to pump mine, finding the smallest and lowest power pump was the only challenging part of this installion, .35 amps per hour, which is the only power usage when stove is operating. Stove is gravity fed from a small day tank and a small electric fuel pump fills this from the main fuel tank.If stove is properly adjusted soot is minimal to none and if proper stove pipe charly noble is used back drafting is not an issue. I leave cabin air dorade vents open and crack the hatch for air circulation and to get rid of excess heat, very dry heat and leave it on for weeks at a time. Cold diesal is hard to light so starting the stove is a learning process, but once you have figured it out its not bad. On top of regulator valve is a heat sensitive link that will release knob to turn off if chamber heat is to high and you can put a thermostatic heat link on the pipe that will also turn off fuel, even with all this I seldom leave boat for long with stove on, but I worry about everything anyway. I do leave stove on while I sleep,but have CO and monoxide and smoke and propane sensors, can't even make toast on my boat. Have used Webasto and Espar on other boats, if you go that way be sure to put a muffler on it, can be very noisy with high power and fuel usage. I wanted a low tech heat with hot water with little to know power usage, easy to operate and work on if need be and pleased with my choice. John.
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Old 23-10-2011, 16:44   #70
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

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Originally Posted by JDS61 View Post
I have a Dickenson Alaskan in a 40Cape Dory that I only run at its lowest setting, more heat than I need with about 1 gallon of diesal for 24hours use. I have a heat powered echo fan on top that uses no electricity that spreads the heat around. There is a hot water coil in the chamber[factory installed]that I plumbed to my hot water tank that provides us with hot water. If your hot water tank is close the water will circulate by convection with no power use, my tank was too far away so I have to pump mine, finding the smallest and lowest power pump was the only challenging part of this installion, .35 amps per hour, which is the only power usage when stove is operating. Stove is gravity fed from a small day tank and a small electric fuel pump fills this from the main fuel tank.If stove is properly adjusted soot is minimal to none and if proper stove pipe charly noble is used back drafting is not an issue. I leave cabin air dorade vents open and crack the hatch for air circulation and to get rid of excess heat, very dry heat and leave it on for weeks at a time. Cold diesal is hard to light so starting the stove is a learning process, but once you have figured it out its not bad. On top of regulator valve is a heat sensitive link that will release knob to turn off if chamber heat is to high and you can put a thermostatic heat link on the pipe that will also turn off fuel, even with all this I seldom leave boat for long with stove on, but I worry about everything anyway. I do leave stove on while I sleep,but have CO and monoxide and smoke and propane sensors, can't even make toast on my boat. Have used Webasto and Espar on other boats, if you go that way be sure to put a muffler on it, can be very noisy with high power and fuel usage. I wanted a low tech heat with hot water with little to know power usage, easy to operate and work on if need be and pleased with my choice. John.
Thank you! What a GREAT post. Mike...
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Old 23-10-2011, 17:05   #71
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

Just spent a cool autumn weekend aboard and the Espar Airtronic 4 worked a charm.. Muffler? I couldn't even hear it... disclaimer... my hearing has degraded...

The boat was completely toasty... even heat.. no crafts, smells nada... just nice dry quiet heat.

I did notice condensation of the port lights which were cold enough for moisture in the air to condense on.

I suspect the Airtronic is a big improvement over the earlier models... I had the D3L and this is definitely a better unit.
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Old 26-10-2011, 18:51   #72
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

Which Refleks model do have aboard S/V Hawk?
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Old 26-10-2011, 19:07   #73
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

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Which Refleks model do have aboard S/V Hawk?
60m. Its the 'right' size for our volume, but Hawk has 75mm of insulation all over the hull and holds the heat much better than most boats, so it can generate more heat than we actually need unless it is REALLY cold outside. Nice hotplate that we keep a teakettle on most of the time.
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Old 24-11-2011, 11:50   #74
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

Evans, I have always appreciated your speak with facts approach to the issue under discussion, but it has limitations. As a retired industrial safety professional I can say that experience is only part of the answer, and it can be misleading. One of the most difficult "sells" is persuading an experienced pro that his impeccable safety record is due as much to luck as safe practices. Where fossil fueled heaters in confined spaces are concerned, the potential for disaster is real, even though not always realized. A marine stove burner is putting out as much CO as a camping heater in a tent. What keeps you alive when the campers die is the relatively large volume of air in the boat, but make no mistake. Eventually you will create a toxic atmosphere in the boat. If a 10KBtu heater can kill in a tent in 8 hours, say, then it is simple math to calculate how long you can operate a similar burner in an unventilated boat. Oddly enough, a typical 47' sailboat qualifies as an OSHA permit required confined space, and portable multigas air quality sensors are available for a few hundred dollars, if you are really curious.
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Old 24-11-2011, 12:23   #75
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Re: Best Diesel Heater

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The U.S. Coast Guard maintains detailed statistics on all reported recreational boating safety accidents and incidents throughout the United States and its territories.
But, are all recreational accidents reported to the Coast Guard? And is a case of Carbon Monoxide poisoning a mandatory reportable "accident", being automatically reported to the Coast Guard?

Quote:
#2 you suggest on average only 8 people die per year from propane heaters in the entire USA from all applications (including all the shore based applications)... a tremendously low rate given the number of units being used and that many/most of who are clearly not taking due care and doing really stupid things (for instance several were blind drunk).
Quote:
Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, tasteless toxic gas produced by incomplete combustion in fuel-burning devices such as motor vehicles, gas-powered furnaces, and portable generators (1). Persons with CO poisoning often overlook the symptoms (e.g., headache, nausea, dizziness, or confusion), and undetected exposure can be fatal (1). Unintentional CO exposure accounts for an estimated 15,000 emergency department visits and 500 unintentional deaths in the United States each year (1). The most recent state-level estimates of CO-related deaths were described in 1991 for the years 1979--1988 (2). Using the most recent mortality data available, this report updates national and state-specific unintentional, non--fire-related CO mortality rates and describes the demographic, seasonal, and geographic patterns for 1999--2004. During this period, an average of 439 persons died annually from unintentional, non--fire-related CO poisoning
That last quote was from the CDC. A much different story than what was posted above. Certainly not all boating related, however CO poisoning is a very big problem.

Carbon Monoxide--Related Deaths --- United States, 1999--2004

http://www.youtube.com/user/usnistgo...13/jkO9PK4JvJI
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