Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-10-2011, 13:09   #31
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Cburger- The SigMar 120 and 170 do not require two chimneys; they enable the use of two if desired. All diesel/propane heaters should have an exhaust chimney to remove the moisture and gases from combustion (if not, then more ventilation is required which reduces the heating effect). The SigMar brings the air for combustion in through a 3" fitting on the bottom, which can be hooked up to a second chimney if desired. Or a fan unit can be attached to the 3" connection, which provides positive pressure for combustion and reduces the possibility of back drafting. Add nothing and it is comparable to the Newport (i.e. more likely to backdraft). The SigMar is a slightly more efficient design, and works quite well. OTOH the Dickensen Newport has a nice place for a kettle. The old Newports had a cast iron top for the kettle; new models are just sheet SS IIRC.

At least some of the forced air diesel heaters have balanced combustion ventilation, through a coaxial dual deck fitting. As with a second head used with the SigMar this greatly reduces backdrafting. Unfortunately many of these fittings are very low and can take in water under heavy going - location is very important. I have seen corroded heaters as a result.

Backdrafting can happen at the dock as well as underway. I have a dodger over the (aft) cockpit and companionway. If the wind is blowing hard from the front of the boat a vacuum is created behind the dodger; opening the hatch under these conditions can cause backdrafting.
__________________

__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 13:35   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: Westsail 28
Posts: 684
Images: 12
Re: Best Diesel Heater

I have heard good thinks about refleks heaters and am considering for myself. This is what Beth and Evans Starzinger had to say about it on their website:

"Refleks drip diesel heater. If you are looking for a simple, reliable, clean burning heater, this is it. It's not as touch button convenient, nor does it spread the heat around as evenly as the forced-air units (like Espar and Webasto), but it is much much more reliable and uses zero power. The Refleks also has a hotplate, which is a nice feature in cold weather cruising, to keep hot water ready for tea or hot chocolate on demand."
__________________

__________________
virginia boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 14:50   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,899
Re: Best Diesel Heater

re: Beth & Evans.......I wonder if they use it while under way?

I picked up a Dickenson Adriatic cook stove a while back and installed it in a hunting cabin. Same principal, a 'pot burner.' It works well but is kinda finicky. In any case it put me off having one on a boat.

As a minimum you have to orient the carburetor in relation to the center line, I think I read somewhere that they were good only up to something like 15 degrees of heel.

It's not that I insist on 'push button convenience', I use kero cook stoves.
__________________
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 15:17   #34
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
re: Beth & Evans.......I wonder if they use it while under way?
Not often, but we did around south Georgia. The reflek specs indicate it can be used up to 15 degrees of heel.

Two things that have not been mentioned yet

#1 is that a paraffin lamp or two will throw off a tremendous amount of heat. This summer in Newfoundland we only used one big lamp and did not need to fire up the reflek.

#2 a "bus heater" plumbed to the engine cooling circuit provides loads of free and dry heat whenever the engine is on, and will get the boat well warmed up as you motor into harbour. And they are cheap and easy to install.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 15:50   #35
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Refleks are very good pot burners from Denmark. There is another similar brand from Göteborg, Sweden. I don't see that either is much different than the SigMar or Dickenson. One thing to consider is that the European burners need metric stove pipe, which would be hard to get in the US. OTOH if you are in Europe then 3" might be hard to find other than in the UK. They might be close enough to intermix but something in the back of my mind says "no". Worth checking on.

The Swedish one is available with hot water coils (as are the larger ones from the other vendors). The advantage to the Swedish one is that the carburetor can be thermostatically controlled for the hot water. I don't remember the name of the company or know if they are still in business, but if you are interested I can email one of my Swedish friends.
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 15:53   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I've used both Espar and Webasto. They seem fairly comparable.

I went from hydronic on my previous boat to forced air on the present because the hydronic system didn't dry the cabin like a forced-air system does, and to us as liveaboards (shower-aboards and cook-aboards) that was important enough that we were willing to forgo the other advantages of a hydronic system.
That Webasto seems like a good solution. See: Sure Marine

The exhaust is routed to the stern of the boat and also the combustion air intake also is routed from the stern of the boat. They have good diagrams at the link for installation in a sailboat. See: http://www.suremarineservice.com/PriceLists/AT5500.pdf
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 17:17   #37
Registered User
 
ardoin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Annapolis
Boat: PAE, Mason, 44 - Music
Posts: 184
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Using an ITR Hurricane here. Replace an old model Webasto for this. It is great, but eats a bit of power. Great to have Hot water while at anchor. Multiple zones and toasty warm when needed. Maintenance is easy. Live aboard year round in the Ches Bay.
__________________
Cy Ardoin
S/V Music
http://www.cycon.com/
ardoin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 18:00   #38
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,899
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Not often, but we did around south Georgia. The reflek specs indicate it can be used up to 15 degrees of heel.

Two things that have not been mentioned yet

#1 is that a paraffin lamp or two will throw off a tremendous amount of heat. This summer in Newfoundland we only used one big lamp and did not need to fire up the reflek.

#2 a "bus heater" plumbed to the engine cooling circuit provides loads of free and dry heat whenever the engine is on, and will get the boat well warmed up as you motor into harbour. And they are cheap and easy to install.
Well if you stayed warm in Newfoundland THIS summer that is saying something. I didn't get out much but moved my boat from Bonavista to Lewisporte. Froze my pututee off crossing Bonavista Bay. Cold, rain, fog. I don't know what it was where I was but St. Johns high was 46 that day, July 17 or there abouts. Heard you were on the south coast?

You got a recommendation for a paraffin lamp mfg?
__________________
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 18:02   #39
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
Refleks are very good pot burners from Denmark. There is another similar brand from Göteborg, Sweden. I don't see that either is much different than the SigMar or Dickenson.

Reflek has a nice hotplate design, they have both the single and double draft designs, and they burn quite cleanly (pot burner design is quite good). Basically it seemed like the best features of all the brands combined into one unit. The general feeling down in Chile among the charter fleet (where heating is quite important) was that they were the best of the pot burners, but I don't have enough experience with the other brands to absolutely confirm that.

I do know that the specific design of the burner pot is delicate and important. Even in the reflek, some models light easier and burn cleaner than others. So, while the various brands may look generally the same, they in fact don't operate equally well.

One thing to consider is that the European burners need metric stove pipe, which would be hard to get in the US.

You get it from Hamiliton marine

The Swedish one is available with hot water coils (as are the larger ones from the other vendors).

Reflek has a coil and radiator options also. We know two boats that managed to make this work without any electric pumps, just the heating/cooling effect driving the circulation - pretty neat.
We had a webasto on Silk and had terrible reliability trouble with it. It broke every year and we had to order expensive parts every year to get it working. It also consumes more amps than we like.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 18:25   #40
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Best Diesel Heater

I admit to being a little out of date here. I do agree that the Refleks is at the top level of design for pot burners. SigMar has similar features; enough so that I suspect one copied the other's ideas, and I think they are comparable. The Dickenson stoves were less efficient, but I don't know where they are today. The rectangular fire boxes used on some models just don't measure up to the cylindrical designs of SigMar and Refleks.

hpeer: The parafin lamp business seems to be dominated by Den Haan Rotterdam (DHR, Navigation lights, Searchlights; Air horns; Nautical lamps). They make quality stuff. I have a Captain's lamp and two Captains Jr. lamps. The Captains is to be preferred as it has a proper circular burner. I like these two because they are overhead-mounted gimballed lamps; hanging lamps can fly around under way and need bungies or similar to stabilize. Sorry, off topic...
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 19:45   #41
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Well if you stayed warm in Newfoundland THIS summer that is saying something.

I think it was a bit warmer on the south coast. You had that huge iceberg sitting off the NE coast all summer.

You got a recommendation for a paraffin lamp mfg?
we have had two "Weems & Plath 8211/o Mini Oil Trawler Lamp" for about 15 years. I presume they still make them. I can't really comment on the alternatives but we sure have enjoyed these.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 22:22   #42
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
Re: Best Diesel Heater

I am getting ready to move on board my boat. The winters can get really cold in NY, the plan is to install a bulkhead mounted diesel heater. I know that the makers advise against leaving the heaters burning when you leave the vessel, however I don't relish the thought of coming home after a long day of work to a cold boat and having to get the heater fired up and freezing my ass off while the boat gets up to temperature. I have read about live aboards in places like Alaska that the heater runs nonstop during the winter months and are left unattended when obligations require leaving the vessel. I am thinking that maybe the manufacturers of these heaters are saying never leave the heater unattended due to liability issues. Would appreciate opinions on the safety of leaving a burning heater unatended for 8-10 hours a day?
__________________
"All men are created equal, some are just more equal than others"
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2011, 23:24   #43
Registered User
 
CarinaPDX's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Boat: 31' Cape George Cutter
Posts: 1,674
Re: Best Diesel Heater

The diesel pot burners use "carburetors", which are similar to an engine carburetor in that they have a float chamber, with an adjustable orifice at the bottom to meter and output the oil to the pot burner. If the float valve were to stick open then the carburetor might overflow, at least in theory. Obviously this would be a bad thing, but it would still need a source of ignition. IIRC some of the carburetors have an overflow output so that could be used to channel the oil into a container. In short, I don't think it is likely a problem, and many of us with them leave them on 24/7 with a cleaning needed every month or two in the winter.

There is a reason that there is sensitivity here. I had a HiSeas pot burner 20 years ago and it was a major fire hazard. Several boats burned as a result of a very bad design. Instead of a carburetor it had a simple needle valve mounted high on the unit; as it warmed up the flow rate increased. If the rate exceeded the burn rate the oil would overflow from the burner (where the flame is). I had this happen once while shopping and came back to a puddle of hot oil extending 6 feet along the sole. The flame was still burning in the heater. Too close. Trashed it. The company went out of business when they couldn't get insurance (now there's a surprise). I bet that got the attention of the insurers; it certainly affected the actuarial numbers for the segment. So now everyone is nervous...
__________________
CarinaPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2011, 06:53   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,061
Re: Best Diesel Heater

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that catalytic heaters and any other open lamps (including stove-top heaters) add water vapor to the cabin. To be dry, a heater that uses a flame must be vented outside.
For extended use in a deep freeze when you want to keep the cabin sealed tight, it's better to use a vented heater or electric/hydronic.
__________________
SailFastTri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2011, 07:23   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Best Diesel Heater

Quote:
The bottom line is that, when using any air/fuel burning device in an RV, sufficient ventilation must be provided to replace that which is used up and to allow for the release of the deadly gaseous byproducts that are produced. What is "sufficient" ventilation? I guess that would depend on the device and the mfgs recommendation.
Personally, I find it distastful when a company recommends their catalytic heater for an RV and then adds the ANSI disclaimer to protect themselves when/if someone dies as a result of using one.
Quote:
Any combustion process has to vented outside or it will build up CO levels in the RV. I'd never use this type of heat as the only source in an RV
Those quotes were taken from an RV forum but here is a link to a Government study.

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia05/os/co03.pdf

The point being that if you use these heaters you must provide sufficient ventilation. You also, as others have said, are adding moisture to the surrounding air, which along with moisture coming in from the source of ventilation and moisture emitted from the crew is going to add up to discomfort and mold.
__________________

__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel Rocketman Engines and Propulsion Systems 75 08-05-2016 20:31
Hybrid Propulsion - I Just Don't Get it twistedtree Engines and Propulsion Systems 38 19-06-2013 13:33
Want To Buy: Sig Marine Diesel Heater cburger Classifieds Archive 1 17-10-2011 14:56
Eberspacher Heater Tomtom39 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 0 16-10-2011 07:49
Do Not Use Biocide Journeyman Engines and Propulsion Systems 37 24-07-2011 19:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.