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Old 10-10-2016, 18:12   #16
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

Have you insulated your boat? Best bang for the buck IMHO. Although adding a heat exchanger to the generator may beat the cost of insulation.
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Old 12-10-2016, 14:50   #17
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Yes, my calorifier has actually two loops in it -- one for main engine coolant, the second one for central heating hydronic circulation.

Hey Dockhead sorry I forgot I asked you this .

I built my calorifier differently , I have a large amount of coolant in the buffer tank . 11 gallons, that gets heated with the rest of the system and I run 50 feet of copper coil through it, that heats the water instantly . I have a thermostat on the tank and if it cools down it will trigger the furnace to come back on and heat it up again. I have another thermostat that is triggered by cabin temperature if I position the switch to that then i get free hot water from heating the cabin . Just food for thought . I have no loops to the engine or generator compared to the furnace the BTUs are a moot point so I didn't add the complexity and potential for leaks . Been running great for three years now, just change the injector nozzle in the furnace every year , 39$ thats it . And Im in Canada and the boats stays in the water through the winter we spend 50 percent of or time there .

regards
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Old 12-10-2016, 15:37   #18
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

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Originally Posted by typhoon View Post
Hey Dockhead sorry I forgot I asked you this .

I built my calorifier differently , I have a large amount of coolant in the buffer tank . 11 gallons, that gets heated with the rest of the system and I run 50 feet of copper coil through it, that heats the water instantly . I have a thermostat on the tank and if it cools down it will trigger the furnace to come back on and heat it up again. I have another thermostat that is triggered by cabin temperature if I position the switch to that then i get free hot water from heating the cabin . Just food for thought . I have no loops to the engine or generator compared to the furnace the BTUs are a moot point so I didn't add the complexity and potential for leaks . Been running great for three years now, just change the injector nozzle in the furnace every year , 39$ thats it . And Im in Canada and the boats stays in the water through the winter we spend 50 percent of or time there .

regards
I remember your system. It's interesting.
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Old 22-10-2016, 09:29   #19
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

Just connect the supply and return ports on the other side of the plate and frame to the boiler return piping, just before the boiler. When the boiler is running it's just a wide spot in the return pipe.

Then add a single throw switch that disconnects the boiler power and runs the circulation pump manually (with the boiler off) when the engine runs.

Of course just using the engine clorifier loop will only get you 10-15 percent of the heat from the engine which may not be enough for space heating.

You could add the plate and frame to the main engine cooling loop (before the main engine heat exchanger) as a side stream unit. Inlet and outlet of the heat exchanger connect side by side (no more then 6" apart... important that) in the inlet hose. (you're going to need a longer inlet hose) to the engine heat exchanger. The other side of the plate and frame heat exchanger connects to the return line of the boiler loop.Then add a 12v calculator to circulate 2-3 gpm through the side arm heat exchanger, between the engine and plate and frame.

That will maximize the heat recovery without effecting the pressure drop in the engine cooling loop.

The engine t-stat will regulate engine temperature. That way you get maximum heat recovery The heat exchanger would only pull out part of the heat out of the engine loop.

Do the same with the generator and you have three means of heating the boat.
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Old 22-10-2016, 09:40   #20
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

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Just connect the supply and return ports on the other side of the plate and frame to the boiler return piping, just before the boiler. When the boiler is running it's just a wide spot in the return pipe.

Then add a single throw switch that disconnects the boiler power and runs the circulation pump manually (with the boiler off) when the engine runs.

Of course just using the engine clorifier loop will only get you 10-15 percent of the heat from the engine which may not be enough for space heating. Add the plate and frame to the main engine cooling loop (before the main engine heat exchanger) as a side stream unit.

Inlet and outlet of the heat exchanger connect side by side (no more then 6" apart... important that) in the inlet hose. (you're going to need a longer inlet hose) to the engine heat exchanger. The other side of the plate and frame heat exchanger connects to the return line of the boiler loop.Then add a 12v calculator to circulate 2-3 gpm through the side arm heat exchanger, between the engine and plate and frame.

That will maximize the heat recovery without effecting the pressure drop in the engine cooling loop.

The engine t-stat will regulate engine temperature. That way you get maximum heat recovery The heat exchanger would only pull out part of the heat out of the engine loop.

Do the same with the generator and you have three means of heating the boat.
Thanks! I was hoping you would weigh in.


So it sounds like you're advocating uniting everything with the main hydronic loop, rather than setting up a separate loop which had been my plan.

My reasoning for doing it separately was:

1. Molest the existing system as little as possible. It was designed by far smarter people than me (at least in HVAC design). Don't know if the 10kW Eberspacher furnace will feed all the additional equipment.

2. Use the waste heat intensively for particular tasks, rather than distribute it all around the boat.

3. Make best use of the second calorifier loop.

4. Simpler.



Concerning the existing engine loop -- it's pretty heavy duty, and it does bypass the heat exchanger. I doubt if I could improve on it. Like a car heater loop, it will give heat before the thermostat opens, and will keep the thermostat partially closed to keep up the temperature.

My big question was whether to cut the calorifier loop, which is pretty long and awkward, and use the existing engine loop just to feed a heat exchanger. Then feed the calorifier loop as a branch just like the two radiators and the bus heater.

Anyway, all tips, hints, opinions, thoughts very welcome, as I think this through.
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Old 22-10-2016, 10:19   #21
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

Let me pick this apart:

1. Molest the existing system as little as possible. It was designed by far smarter people than me (at least in HVAC design). Don't know if the 10kW Eberspacher furnace will feed all the additional equipment.

Sorry no extra equipment other then the plate and frame connected on the return side of the boiler loop. That and a switch to disconnect the boiler and only run the boiler pump. It will not effect the engine or boiler loop to any measurable degree. You use the existing boiler loop to distribute the heat, just with the boiler off


2. Use the waste heat intensively for particular tasks, rather than distribute it all around the boat.

With my system you use the existing boiler loop and fan coils to distribute the heat.



3. Make best use of the second calorifier loop.

There is only so much btu's/kw available from the calorifier loop. This as it's normally a 15 to 25mm hose. I think the GPM flow rate will be too low for space heating I suspect it will not be enough to heat your boat adequately

4. Simpler.

Your system adds a second set of fan coils and piping....
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Old 15-11-2016, 16:35   #22
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

Hi Dockhead,

I agree that hydronic heating is great up here in the cold North. We have a Webasto thermo top but also use an electric heater with a circulation pump built into the loop, gives a max of 2100 W and is great when we are on shore power. Alde http://alde.se/uk/products/mobile/?page=3361 makes them if you want to have a look.
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Old 15-11-2016, 17:37   #23
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

Improving your insulation would no doubt help. As in my foam cored boat, with no heat it would be 60-65deg. inside when it was 25 degrees colder than that outside, with no heater at all switched on. Also, have a thermal check done of the boat on a cold & windy day in order to assess where you bleed heat the most. Like are done on homes. Then have one done again, after you plug the leaks.
And too, you can close off sections of the boat that you don't much live in when it's truly frosty.

Might a Refleks be in the offering? As little beats the feeling of direct, radiated heat when it's cold. Keeping the boat's inner air temp reasonable with various radiators helps, but it's not like being next to a warm stove.
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Old 16-11-2016, 10:39   #24
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Re: Autumn, and a Young Man's Fancy Turns to -- Heating His Boat

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Improving your insulation would no doubt help. As in my foam cored boat, with no heat it would be 60-65deg. inside when it was 25 degrees colder than that outside, with no heater at all switched on. Also, have a thermal check done of the boat on a cold & windy day in order to assess where you bleed heat the most. Like are done on homes. Then have one done again, after you plug the leaks.
And too, you can close off sections of the boat that you don't much live in when it's truly frosty.

Might a Refleks be in the offering? As little beats the feeling of direct, radiated heat when it's cold. Keeping the boat's inner air temp reasonable with various radiators helps, but it's not like being next to a warm stove.
My boat is semi-insulated -- fully cored hull, and no part of the hull exposed in the interior of the boat.

I lose a LOT of heat through the 8 large dorade vents, which keep the wind whistling through the boat. But I LIKE this and I'm willing to tolerate the heat loss, because it keeps water vapor out, condensation at bay, etc., etc.


I would love to have a Refleks, Sigmar, Dickenson, etc. pot heater, and will definitely have one in the next boat. Not in this one, however. Not really any good place for it, and also loathe to chop a hole in the cored deck. Totally agree about the value of direct radiated heat, sitting next to the stove, and the psychological warmth of seeing the flame through the window -- love it. Definitely on the next boat. Will be a supplement to hydronic heat.
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