Are any boaters following the law?

[Nikki S]

Down here, the marinas tend to have toilets that you trek to when you need to go..... so you don't fill your holding tanks when in port, but I have heard toilets being released on the big, fancy, 3-story motor boat next door in the middle of the night.
It's not OK.

[conchaway]

They advertise free pump outs because it's the LAW in Florida that they must pump out for free.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Boat Named Sue

I’m not looking for admissions of guilt, but in your experience, how many boaters comply with sewage discharge laws?

I ask because for the last two weeks I’ve been in a marina in Tampa Bay doing some upgrades and requested a pump out from the marina. They seemed really put out by my request, despite advertising free mobile pump outs. It took four days of daily requests to make it happen. Then I noticed that during the last two weeks I never saw the pump out cart servicing any of the dozens of live aboards in the marina. As I started asking around, most of the live aboards indirectly admited to just pumping overboard, many claiming that maceration is treatment enough.

Is this normal? Do most boaters ignore the discharge laws, even when inside the marina?

I have seen sewage in every marina I've berthed in. I don't think it would be too difficult to find a culprit in most marinas.

Recently saw a crappy fishing boat leaking gallons of diesel in a US marina. Nobody seemed concerned. I suggested they use the spill containment floating boom located a few yards away in deference to their waving about a tea towel.

After seeing the skipper conducting some very erratic manouevers in a very listed boat, and veering near our sailboat we called the USCG and requested they ensure this clown stop endangering other vessels. Oh and perhaps deal with the leak.

I didn't notice any particular sense of urgency but later on the floating boom was visible but in the wrong spot. The offending was also gone.

The USCG had been busy rescuing several powerless sailboats that week in tough conditions so I'm not implying they were lacking in their response.

[Island Time O25]

At some point marinas, HMs and mooring fields were getting Federal grants for various free pumpout schemes. About $50-75K per location, or some such.

Not sure if they still do but since we're all paying one way or the other (boat sales/excise/use taxes, registration/permit fees, etc) it seems only fair that some of that money is applied to something which actually benefits us all.

[billgewater]

This is a tricky issue. In Darwin, due partly to the 7m tidal range, there are 4 lock gated marinas which have virtually no flow through at all. Dumped waste stays right next to the boat. However, generally the toilet/shower facilities are really good. At the local government owned Fishing Harbour (Duck Pond) marina there are facilities at the land end of each jetty (sort of..). The other lock gated marinas have, generally, facilities that are less accessible, but they are of reasonable standard.
One marina does not (officially) allow live a-boards. Pump out facilities (as far as I know) are not available at all unless the owner requests a pump out vehicle, requiring the vessel to move to a place where the pump out truck comes alongside. Taking your vessel outside the marina to dump waste means that a lot of waste is dumped at once, not over any longer time period.
At one stage in Queensland (I believe), a local council refused to accept the pump out waste as the salt water upset their processing facilities. I am not sure if this matter has been resolved.
Clearly the issue is often put into the too hard basket. If strict rules were visibly enforced then many marinas may just simply lose out as customers may flee the marinas. So it seems that the problem is one of inconsistency (incontinence?).
It may be that some countries may start to enforce a rule that only allows the sale or importation of vessels conditional on them having waste tanks. That would probably also create havoc for many as it may lead to an instant devaluation of current older vessels. Also, where do you stop? Shower water? Kitchen sink waste with detergents?
Also, the degree of the “problem” may depend not only on relative tidal or current flows but also on the local environmental profiles. Some marine organisms may see it as a bonus but local beach surfers may not.
It seems to me that a good marina will have well placed facilities that do not require a 200 m walk to access the loo. A local marina was built for a real estate development company and they oversaw the placement of the toilets at the most extreme location possible. Marina users need to walk up to 250 m to actually leave the marina, then through a hotel dining area, into a public unsecured car park to access the keyed, sauna like facilities. All with local council complicity. Queensland, a real estate company and a council:- what could possibly go wrong? This marina does have a single pump out station but I have never seen anyone actually use it.
I haven’t got the answers, but I suspect that it really needs some oversight to prevent problems. If the local water movement is minimal, then the facilities at the marina should be really readily accessible. As the average age of the cruising fraternity rises, the associated ability to manage long walks to toilets invariably diminishes. Frequency of use also tends to increase as well, I am told. Maybe all new marinas should have vacuum lines to each marina berth if the circumstances warrant it (Although this is irrelevant if you don’t have a holding tank.)
However, I suspect the problem arises simply because at the design stage of a marina, the land near the jetties is very expensive and the designers believe that better (read, financial returns) use can be made of that land particularly if it is potential marina frontage housing land or yard usage. Toilets don’t generate any income.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

At some point marinas, HMs and mooring fields were getting Federal grants for various free pumpout schemes. About $50-75K per location, or some such.

Not sure if they still do but since we're all paying one way or the other (boat sales/excise/use taxes, registration/permit fees, etc) it seems only fair that some of that money is applied to something which actually benefits us all.

Not sure about other places but at BKH the grant was a lot more than $US50-75K. Paid for two nice boats and the pumps and holding tanks on them. Think it was closer to $US300K. If you are on a ball/wall in the marina there is a schedule and you get pumped out on a regular basis. If you are in the harbor the boat will come to you free of charge.


Part of the problem is few marinas make money in places like Florida and many of them have sold out to high rise condo developers who pay big bucks to water front property. Tax payers, especially if they have paid six figures or more for their condo don't take kindly to seeing tax dollars going for free pump outs for boats they see as hurting their property values.

[Dooglas]

I realize that rules regarding sewage discharges are lax in many parts of the world, but I am surprised by the many posts here that sound like rules are not understood or are widely ignored in the US. More and more of our inside and nearshore waters are becoming "no discharge zones". You can't get much more restrictive than that. And all boats with an installed toilet have been required to have a functioning marine sanitation device (MSD), usually a holding tank, for about 40 years now. The Clean Vessel Act of 1992 set up a system of grants through the states to establish and operate marine pump out facilities (Clean Vessel Act Grant Opportunities). In my area most marinas and fuel docks have them. I notice most of the larger marine parks in Washington state now have on-the-water pump out facilities. I am also seeing more pump out facilities in the popular cruising waters of Southern BC as well. Do I use them? You bet!

[Emmalina]

There are lots of laws in lots of countries with varying standards Ambiguous question really. Adapt to what you can get away with is my motto !

[Maka]

"Big deal.
EVERYONE pees in the shower.
And..... on boats occasionally in the sink."


I NEVER pee in the sink... if there are dishes in it.

[nhschneider]

When we were cruising the coast of Maine last year, we were continuously in awe at the number of spectacular vintage Hinckleys, Aldens, Moodys and others that appeared to be in bristol condition, many of them 50 years old and older. I wondered what percentage of them have had a holding tank added. Virtually all of Maine's coast is a no-discharge zone. I also wondered how many of the working lobster boats have holding tanks.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[waterman46]

In most marinas in CA that I have been to, the marina is very helpful in arranging for mobile pumpouts. It depends a lot on the local enforcement. We have some "boat Nazi" types around here that run these quasi-governmental organizations and they set some rules and can fine marinas that don't cooperate. So they are sometimes helpful and sometimes a nuisance, depending on your issue. Can't vouch for all the boat owners, but in some liveaboard marinas I have seen the pumpout boat in action almost every day.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

I have a couple of thoughts:

1. I think that other respondents who have made a distinction between urine and poop are on the right track. The federal standards are written around fecal coliform bacteria when it comes to treatment, and I don't think there's any fecal coliform bacteria in urine, so it stands to reason that it shouldn't be illegal to discharge (in the same way that rinsing wine glasses in the sink doesn't (or shouldn't) release any f.c. bacteria.)

2. The lack of pumpout facilities in marinas around the country makes it very difficult to comply, combined with the frequently inadequately-sized holding tanks.

3. My solution has typically been to not worry about urine, and use the onshore facilities for anything more.

Chuck

In theory solution 3 (keep 'em separate) is fine, but in practice they all get mixed together if you are only doing both in the marine head, due to the long length of 1 1/2 inch hose between the head and the discharge. To keep the pee squeaky clean you have to either pee in the shower, in a bucket and dump it overboard, or use the rail (last option not recommended!)

Doug

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by ShellBack89

That is incorrect . Having grown up in Orange County and San Diego where every time it rained the raw sewage from Mexico would flow north and resulted in beach closures due to health reasons. There have been studies related to this issue.

Years ago I got terribly sick for several weeks with a bad case of Montezuma's Revenge - after surfing at a beach in Baja. At that beach there were pit toilets not more than 100 yards from the water. Most likely an nice underground water table from there to the ocean.

The good part is that since then I've never been sick in any country I've visited, including all over SE Asia and Latin America.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by Maka

"Big deal.
EVERYONE pees in the shower.
And..... on boats occasionally in the sink."


I NEVER pee in the sink... if there are dishes in it.

You should as it would clean the dishes. Think laterally.

[thruska]

Illegal pumping (not undocumented pumping) is one reson fancy house owners dont want you there...
Cant blame them , unless of course they drain their stuff in it.
In Alabama everything goes in the river, EVERYTHING!!
Its the mentality.... an yall dezint need ta axe me wye it jess duz...