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Old 23-05-2018, 19:11   #1
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Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

Solution to sluggish Eutectic holding plate performance.


Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator
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Old 23-05-2018, 21:47   #2
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

Totally disagree... How the guy mentioned in your link lasted 30 years in marine refrigeration is beyond me! How could anyone advocate using a 2cc compressor unit to refrigerate a sixteen pound eutectic plate? That is crazy or perhaps its the Arctic version!

In the eutectic / cyclic test I recently posted, we used a moderately insulated 150 litre cabinet with a 3.3 litre Eutectic tank coupled to a 3.5cc compressor unit.

That same cabinet / system was data logged again recently with 40 litres of water in containers inside cabinet, and in a cooler environment than my previous test as can be seen on the data below. The initial cabinet pull down from 22.0C to 4.0C took a little over 2.5 hours but 4.1 hours to complete the first phase change. Thereafter it ran just once per day and for approx 2 hours each time.

Now in many situations (specially if a system has ECO2 power management) that ONE run per day would occur after the batteries are topped up and the ongoing solar, wind or what ever would otherwise have be wasted. Result: NO POWER DRAIN from battery bank, none, zero, zilch. Using 'abundant power' to re-freeze the eutectic mass! Now you can't get more power efficient than that!

The eutectic system's initial pull down is a little slower than using a cyclic plate, but a small price to pay when the overall power savings are considered. Besides most cruisers leave their fridge on 24/7 so first pull down of a warm cabinet's temperature is not an issue.

Here are some initial results from further testing..

Click image for larger version

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Cheers OzePete
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Old 23-05-2018, 21:59   #3
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=OzePete;2637783]Totally disagree... How the guy mentioned in your link lasted 30 years in marine refrigeration is beyond me! How could anyone advocate using a 2cc compressor unit to refrigerate a sixteen pound eutectic plate? That is crazy or perhaps its the Arctic version!

Comeon Pete, the site linked was Kollman Marine, specialists in marine refrigeration, 1 post and last edited by Richard.
Meethinks you have risen to the bait.
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Old 23-05-2018, 22:05   #4
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=Uncle Bob;2637788]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzePete View Post
Totally disagree... How the guy mentioned in your link lasted 30 years in marine refrigeration is beyond me! How could anyone advocate using a 2cc compressor unit to refrigerate a sixteen pound eutectic plate? That is crazy or perhaps its the Arctic version!

Comeon Pete, the site linked was Kollman Marine, specialists in marine refrigeration, 1 post and last edited by Richard.
Meethinks you have risen to the bait.
I have to disagree.
The Link Richard posted was to a quote from another person, not from Richard himself. That is how I read it.
Also it is from another forum from a poster there named "bootsn'


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Old 23-05-2018, 22:09   #5
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=OzePete;2637792]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post

I have to disagree.
The Link Richard posted was to a quote from another person, not from Richard himself. That is how I read it.


Cheers OzePete
Could well be, I am suspicious after noting that the post was edited by Richard, but who knows, I have been wrong before and most likely will be again.
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Old 24-05-2018, 03:38   #6
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=Uncle Bob;2637795]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzePete View Post

Could well be, I am suspicious after noting that the post was edited by Richard, but who knows, I have been wrong before and most likely will be again.
Uncle Bob, you are on the right track it takes about 5 amp-hr for a BD35 compressor to freeze two pounds of ice solution so do the math for 16 pounds of solution and add energy heat added by mother nature to the box.

The subject in this thread was compressor running time to freeze all the eutectic solution with the most commonly used Danfoss BD35.
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Old 24-05-2018, 05:32   #7
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=Richard Kollmann;2637857]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post

Uncle Bob, you are on the right track it takes about 5 amp-hr for a BD35 compressor to freeze two pounds of ice solution so do the math for 16 pounds of solution and add energy heat added by mother nature to the box.

The subject in this thread was compressor running time to freeze all the eutectic solution with the most commonly used Danfoss BD35.
I don't agree. The subject of this thread was clearly quote: 'Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator'
Or perhaps interpret that as 'Another failed attempt to disprove the superior efficiency of eutectic refrigeration systems in most limited power applications'

And like I previously stated 'How the guy mentioned in Richards link lasted 30 years in marine refrigeration is beyond me! How could anyone advocate using a 2cc compressor unit to refrigerate a sixteen pound eutectic plate? That is crazy or perhaps its the Arctic version!


I find it incredible that the link in the OP was entertained at all as it only indicates the worst of what the marine refrigeration industry offers.

Cheers OzePete
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Old 24-05-2018, 05:40   #8
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

Funny I was just thinking about “boat show claims”

The Cool Blue (there I said it) is the best ever marine refrigeration.

Until you educate yourself.
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Old 24-05-2018, 06:05   #9
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Funny I was just thinking about “boat show claims”

The Cool Blue (there I said it) is the best ever marine refrigeration.

Until you educate yourself.
The reality Boatguy, is that no refrigeration system type or system brand suits all, or is best for all applications. Marine cabinets and their owners needs are extremely varied, therefore it is important to explore all options and seek the expertise of hands on industry people like John from ColdEh, Rich from Cold Blue and others rather than risking some brochure reader selling some Chinese or Italian 'off the shelf' piece of guess work. Tip= If you call up a supplier and can't talk to the people who actually build the system, hang up!

Cheers OzePete
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Old 24-05-2018, 06:14   #10
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Funny I was just thinking about “boat show claims”

The Cool Blue (there I said it) is the best ever marine refrigeration.

Until you educate yourself.
So, what is wrong with Cool Blue? They have a great reputation.
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Old 24-05-2018, 06:24   #11
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=OzePete;2637892]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann View Post

I don't agree. The subject of this thread was clearly quote: 'Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator'
Or perhaps interpret that as 'Another failed attempt to disprove the superior efficiency of eutectic refrigeration systems in most limited power applications'

And like I previously stated 'How the guy mentioned in Richards link lasted 30 years in marine refrigeration is beyond me! How could anyone advocate using a 2cc compressor unit to refrigerate a sixteen pound eutectic plate? That is crazy or perhaps its the Arctic version!


I find it incredible that the link in the OP was entertained at all as it only indicates the worst of what the marine refrigeration industry offers.

Cheers OzePete

I do not see or understand what you mean by "Superior Efficiency of Eutectic Refrigeration systems". Your test if fair or unfair only showed a 11 amp-hr per day savings this is not superior performance. If you think a 16 pound eutectic plate is crazy one of my designed systems had 66 pounds of eutectic solution kept frozen with the smaller BD2.5 compressor.

Maybe you need to look at more of my examples of true eutectic holding plates on my Refrigeration Forum they are all designed to store only surplus energy.
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Old 24-05-2018, 06:40   #12
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=Richard Kollmann;2637916]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzePete View Post


I do not see or understand what you mean by "Superior Efficiency of Eutectic Refrigeration systems". Your test if fair or unfair only showed a 11 amp-hr per day savings this is not superior performance. If you think a 16 pound eutectic plate is crazy one of my designed systems had 66 pounds of eutectic solution kept frozen with the smaller BD2.5 compressor.

Maybe you need to look at more of my examples of true eutectic holding plates on my Refrigeration Forum they are all designed to store only surplus energy.
Thanks Richard but no thanks. I have seen too many fundamental and key refrigeration issues you have incorrectly stated and chose to adhere to, even in the face of solid data disputing your position.
So as much as I usually choose to keep an open mind, I shall graciously decline your offer.

BTW 11 amp/hrs per day is quite significant to many.
Cheers OzePete
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Old 24-05-2018, 06:42   #13
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Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzePete View Post
The reality Boatguy, is that no refrigeration system type or system brand suits all, or is best for all applications. Marine cabinets and their owners needs are extremely varied, therefore it is important to explore all options and seek the expertise of hands on industry people like John from ColdEh, Rich from Cold Blue and others rather than risking some brochure reader selling some Chinese or Italian 'off the shelf' piece of guess work. Tip= If you call up a supplier and can't talk to the people who actually build the system, hang up!

Cheers OzePete


Support should be a major factor in your refrigeration purchasing research as Pete has said . You should be able to pick up the phone and ask the manufacturer how to get that whatsit thingey to attach to the dohicky .

Regards John
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Old 24-05-2018, 06:47   #14
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine View Post
Support should be a major factor in your refrigeration purchasing research as Pete has said . You should be able to pick up the phone and ask the manufacturer how to get that whatsit thingey to attach to the dohicky .

Regards John
www.coldeh.com
Exactly John, but more importantly the product offered will be suited to the project and not just some import the dealer has on the shelf.
And regards back up parts etc, who wants to have to learn Italian or Chinese so as to talk to the systems maker. Hell even us Aussies can understand the Yank twang and you guys us, well mostly!

Cheers OzePete
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Old 24-05-2018, 07:37   #15
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Re: Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[QUOTE=OzePete;2637923]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann View Post

Thanks Richard but no thanks. I have seen too many fundamental and key refrigeration issues you have incorrectly stated and chose to adhere to, even in the face of solid data disputing your position.
So as much as I usually choose to keep an open mind, I shall graciously decline your offer.

BTW 11 amp/hrs per day is quite significant to many.
Cheers OzePete
A closed mind means your you are unreceptive or even interested in the industry you will be competing against. The Cool Blue eutectic plate system has set the standard for small holding plate 12 volt refrigeration. It is maintainable locally anywhere in the world without contacting the manufacturer.
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