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Old 12-09-2012, 10:47   #16
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
The relationship of aluminum to Alzheimer's and other diseases was scientifically debunked a while ago. By real scientists.

Conflating issues with aluminum vaccine adjuvants with aluminum storage containers is like conflating the lethality of lead bullets prejudicially inserted in your abdomen with drinking out of leaded crystal. Your citation on that is useless to this discussion.

The citation by Frisardi discusses that while some studies hypothesize a link, none of them satisfy the criteria for causation.

Your other links are from anti-vaccine fearmongering and the like.

Aluminum is one of the most abundant elements on earth and it is impossible to not ingest it daily - it is in everything.

There is no problem drinking water stored in aluminum or eating food prepared with aluminum cookware. There can be a problem drinking certain things out of aluminum cans, but that is not the fault of aluminum.

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Your insight is much appreciated. The studies that have yielded data that runs contrary to the existence of a link between aluminum and dementia have taken place in laboratory settings that fail to emulate the environment in which we exist. The studies simply exposed neurons to aluminum and provided observations about their state prior to and proceeding the exposure. Since they found no evidence of degeneration, they concluded there exists no correlation between aluminum exposure and dementia.

This should not serve as any basis of assurance for society at large. Autopsies of Alzheimer's patients consistently identify aluminum staining in brain tissue; where as it is generally absent from those who do not have it. This in itself demonstrates the studies showing there is no link between dementia and aluminum exposure fail to paint a complete picture.

Please feel free to use any evidence evidence you find comfort in as guidance with respect to whether you choose to expose yourself to aluminum. As a scientist, the studies fail to convince me of the existence of no relationship between the two.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:07   #17
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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Autopsies of Alzheimer's patients consistently identify aluminum staining in brain tissue; where as it is generally absent from those who do not have it.
Could you post some links to those studies. I am curious about whether the aluminum staining was only in the brains of those with proven Alzheimer's or if it has been linked to other forms of dementia.

I would bet that Alzheimer's or other forms of dementia are as or more likely to be inherited than caused by any outside influence.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:11   #18
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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Could you post some links to those studies. I am curious about whether the aluminum staining was only in the brains of those with proven Alzheimer's or if it has been linked to other forms of dementia.

I would bet that Alzheimer's or other forms of dementia are as or more likely to be inherited than caused by any outside influence.
Aluminum in hippocampal neurons from humans ... [Neurotoxicology. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:30   #19
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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This should not serve as any basis of assurance for society at large. Autopsies of Alzheimer's patients consistently identify aluminum staining in brain tissue; where as it is generally absent from those who do not have it. This in itself demonstrates the studies showing there is no link between dementia and aluminum exposure fail to paint a complete picture.

As a scientist, the studies fail to convince me of the existence of no relationship between the two.
Quote:
Using a staining technique developed in 2004, we examined hippocampal tissue from autopsy-confirmed cases of Alzheimer's disease (AD) and controls. The stain disclosed aluminum in cells and subcellular structure. All pyramidal neurons in these aged specimens appeared to exhibit at least some degree of aluminum staining.
This study seems to say that all specimens showed some aluminum staining and they only argue that aluminum should not be dismissed as a possible cause or influence.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:39   #20
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

I also have aluminum water tanks and keep them clean by putting chlorine dioxide in the tanks each time I fill them. Chlorine is highly reactive with aluminum but chlorine dioxide is not. It is used to clean large aluminum tanks in wineries etc. You can get small amounts of chlorine dioxide at any outdoor store, hikers use it to make stream and lake water safe to drink.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:48   #21
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
This study seems to say that all specimens showed some aluminum staining and they only argue that aluminum should not be dismissed as a possible cause or influence.
Yes. This concern has existed for years. The handful of studies that dismissed it were performed in laboratory settings, thus failing to emulate the natural environment in which we exist. It is primarily for that reason I do not find the dismissals convincing.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:32   #22
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

From the Alzheimer's Society:

Quote:
People with kidney failure are unable to excrete aluminium, and yet they frequently have to be treated with compounds that contain aluminium. Aluminium accumulates in nerve cells that are particularly vulnerable in Alzheimer's disease. However, even after years of high exposure to aluminium, patients with kidney failure are no more likely to develop dementia or the hallmark pathological changes of Alzheimer's disease (Netter et al 1990).
That's a long-term human subject study of people deliberately dosed with high levels of aluminium.

The presence of aluminium staining does not necessarily indicate a causal effect:

Quote:
Aluminium has been shown to be associated both with plaques and with tangles in the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease (Crapper et al 1976). However, the presence of aluminium does not mean that the aluminium was the causal factor − it is more likely to be a harmless secondary association.
Is aluminium present in the brains of Alzheimer's patients at higher levels than non-Alzheimer's patients - most likely yes. Did the aluminium cause the Alzheimer's - the jury is still out, but current thinking is that it is a secondary effect.

Alzheimer's Society Aluminium Fact Sheet
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:36   #23
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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From the Alzheimer's Society:



That's a long-term human subject study of people deliberately dosed with high levels of aluminium.

The presence of aluminium staining does not necessarily indicate a causal effect:



Is aluminium present in the brains of Alzheimer's patients at higher levels than non-Alzheimer's patients - most likely yes. Did the aluminium cause the Alzheimer's - the jury is still out, but current thinking is that it is a secondary effect.

Alzheimer's Society Aluminium Fact Sheet
There is no benefit in subjecting oneself to a (potential) neurotoxin while the jury deliberates, so to speak. It is enough of a concern to demand serious consideration and evaluation by the scientific community. That being the case, I am more inclined to err out of caution and avoid what is unknown.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:56   #24
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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There is no benefit in subjecting oneself to a (potential) neurotoxin while the jury deliberates, so to speak.
I mostly agree, but we all pick and choose our risks. Aluminium has been in the human diet and in the human body since before we were humans. Can't say that about the styrene that offgasses from fiberglass boat hulls, or the benzene, toluene, and other refined hydrocarbons that come out of the fuel tanks on our boats. If you want to be frightened some time, take an indoor air sample from your boat and have it analyzed by a good lab.

Personally, I consider those a higher risk to my health than aluminium, at least evolution has had a chance to work with that. To each his own.
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Old 12-09-2012, 14:41   #25
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
I mostly agree, but we all pick and choose our risks. Aluminium has been in the human diet and in the human body since before we were humans. Can't say that about the styrene that offgasses from fiberglass boat hulls, or the benzene, toluene, and other refined hydrocarbons that come out of the fuel tanks on our boats. If you want to be frightened some time, take an indoor air sample from your boat and have it analyzed by a good lab.

Personally, I consider those a higher risk to my health than aluminium, at least evolution has had a chance to work with that. To each his own.
I agree, as long as one is aware of the risks and chooses to proceed and assess/manage the risk accordingly. For me, the risk is enough to prompt me to determine how feasible it is to mitigate it. Eliminating things like aluminum cookware, potable water tanks, and baking powder and deodorant containing it are relatively easy and painless; and I choose that route. As you said, to each his own.
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Old 12-09-2012, 16:15   #26
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

Have you eliminated beer, water and baked potatoes? They were some of the items mentioned that contain aluminum.
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Old 12-09-2012, 16:40   #27
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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Have you eliminated beer, water and baked potatoes? They were some of the items mentioned that contain aluminum.
Thanks for the wisdom. I don't drink canned beer and am very picky about the bottled beer I consume, my drinking water is purified via reverse osmosis (which eliminates aluminum), and I don't eat baked potatoes or anything wrapped in aluminum foil. Yes, I am consistent in my beliefs regarding aluminum and apply them in my lifestyle choices.
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Old 12-09-2012, 20:06   #28
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

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Originally Posted by Astral Blue View Post
The studies that have yielded data that runs contrary to the existence of a link between aluminum and dementia have taken place in laboratory settings that fail to emulate the environment in which we exist. The studies simply exposed neurons to aluminum and provided observations about their state prior to and proceeding the exposure. Since they found no evidence of degeneration, they concluded there exists no correlation between aluminum exposure and dementia.
Actually, I was referring to large scale, controlled epidemiology studies - the follow-up studies of the exact same ones that first noted a possible causative link.

I have no problem with your personal fastidiousness regarding aluminum, but in your original post, you cited non-sequitars, hyperbole and conspiracy while giving specific advice as fact.

Your later posts bring more balance as to your personal beliefs and practices vs. proven facts and recommendations.

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Old 14-09-2012, 17:28   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz
Encapsulating metal tanks in foam, any metal, is a sure way to kill them early. The foam will trap any water that gets in, it will sooner or later, and corrosion will destroy the tanks from the outside. Metal tanks need to be mounted on strips of UHDP or something similar sealed to the tank so that no moisture can get trapped between the UHDP and the tank walls.
Bought the boat that way. What is UHDP? The tanks are mounted in a steel boat. I have suspected there might be a problem with the foam trapping moisture. Can't wait to see what lies under those tanks. GE
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Old 14-09-2012, 17:55   #30
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Re: Aluminum Water Tanks

UHDP: ultra high density polyethylene.
Every time I drink too much beer in aluminium cans I get dementia but it goes away the following morning.
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