Alternatives to normal sanitation hoses?

[SpaceRnglr]

So I am not able to locate sanitation hose in Singapore. The usual places to buy boat gear don't carry it... That leaves me with the option to buy from SVB24 and pay a lot for shipping, or find an alternative.

Are there any other types of hoses that people have used? I was thinking possible fuel supply hoses which I know I can get locally?

By the way, this is 1 1/2 inch direct discharge hoses. No holding tanks here...

Thanks for any feedback.

[peghall]

Trident Rubber has a hose they call OceanFlex 321 that "can be used for a multitude of applications for both Commercial and Recreational Vessels including: Fuel Fill, Feed, and Vent (Diesel & Gasoline – Type A1), Lube Oil, Wet Exhaust, Water (Vital and Non-Vital), Bilge, Coolant, Drains, and Sanitation applications." https://tridentmarine.com/product/tr.../#.XGQgerh7mUk I
don't know if it's available in Singapore, but I suggest you talk with them about the suitability of hoses that are available to you, 'cuz I've dealt with Trident for years and they've always been very helpful. 'You'll find a phone number for calling from outside the US under "Contact Us." If you only need a relatively short piece, shipping costs might not be too bad.

--Peggie

[SpaceRnglr]

Thanks for the feedback Peggie!

The problem here is that no one carries marine specific hoses as the pleasure boating market is quite small (at least not for yachts, maybe for larger commercial ships...). I can typically get industrial hoses for water, coolant, diesel, etc so am OK, but not many applications use hose for sewage other than yachts, hence no stock...

I understand you wrote the book on this topic so if you don't know of alternatives I think I just need to suck it up and pay for shipping. These are not hoses i want to change twice!

[Sailmonkey]

My take is that any hose that is able to transport saltwater will work so long as you pump enough to ensure no effluent is left sitting in the hose.

[Dooglas]

My experience is that most flexible hoses are permeable to the odors contained in sanitation systems - if not at first, then thru time. Good sanitation hose has a non-permeable liner on the inside. Perhaps you can contact an industrial supplier about hoses for various chemical applications that are not permeable to odors. Considering problems I have experienced with unsuitable hoses in the past, I'd order a section of good sanitation hose from elsewhere if you can't find a suitable local source.

[taylormobile]

I have had excellent results using standard PVC DWV sch 40 pipe and flexible "Fernco" type fittings used in homes. Try a hardware store in Singapore

Steve

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by SpaceRnglr

Thanks for the feedback Peggie!

The problem here is that no one carries marine specific hoses as the pleasure boating market is quite small (at least not for yachts, maybe for larger commercial ships...). I can typically get industrial hoses for water, coolant, diesel, etc so am OK, but not many applications use hose for sewage other than yachts, hence no stock...

I understand you wrote the book on this topic so if you don't know of alternatives I think I just need to suck it up and pay for shipping. These are not hoses i want to change twice!

A great long while Peggie and I (Hi, Peggie!) had some conversations which had me going to PVC. Here's the story:

We replaced our hoses with PVC. They survived our wreck (3-5000
impacts over 3 days of storm). No head smell in 12 years. Highly
recommended.

The forward head, which I'd originally thought would be impossible,
turned out to be feasible with lots of joints, and some creative
vocabulary. The aft, which I originally thought would be a piece of
cake, I then thought couldn't be done at all, actually turned out
pretty simple.

However, I learned a bit along the way. As nobody's going to be
grading you on neatness, slop the crap (pardon the expression) out of
the joints with cleaner, and then with the glue, when you're making
the assembly (do it all dry first, of course, and allow for the full
depth of insertion as the glue will act as a lubricant, letting you
seat it fully where it won't go, dry).

I didn't do that in my forward head installation. As a result, I had
two very minor seeps at two joints after the incident (more below).
Those were cured with careful sanding and addition of, first, more
glue preceded by an acetone wipe (to clean and soften the plastic),
and followed by some penetrating epoxy (more flexible than laminating
or general-purpose epoxy) with a thickener added to keep it in place.
As I'm currently on the hard, I shut the thru-hull connection, opened
the anti-siphon valve (like you'd see in a laundry connection), and
poured water into the system until it was full (both toilet and hull
ends of the line), and waited a week. No seeps. The aft didn't leak
anywhere.

So, from that, I get...

First, if you think you're being ridiculous in your application of
cleaner and glue, and follow up each joint with swabs around the
perimeter for good measure, it's unlikely you'll ever have a leak.

Second, if there *is* a very small leak, it can be addressed, if you
can get to it. I'd originally thought I'd have to cut out the
offending joint - but even that's possible to do.

Meanwhile, as an establishment of the bona fides of this process, this
hard pipe stood up to huge hull flexing and pounding (impacts) - more
than you'll ever encounter in normal seagoing life. I estimate, based
on time and wave interval, that our hull took not less than 3000 and
probably more than 5000 huge crashes on rock. The flexing our hull
provided in her defense is totally awesome, and for which we're
without words to adequately express how grateful we are that was so.
From that I can provide my own assurances that, done right (joints
fully glued) and supported (no flailing around) that it's unlikely
you'll ever have to deal with that again.

Given the stench of the hose we took out (the good stuff), I'm very
happy to not have to face that thought in this boat's lifetime.

And, finally (you knew I'd get here, eventually, right??), for those
so inclined, my galleries have the gory details on the installations
of both heads' hard pipe, and I can give you the links if you like.
However, in general, I think the forward head (the more complex of the
two) was Feb06 in the refit gallery.

My apologies for these early galleries. There were a dozen major
projects going on at any time, and I had not yet started isolating
projects in separate galleries. As such, there are many intervening
pictures of other stuff going on which you'll have to slog through to
get them all..

Now – as to the pix themselves:

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work/04-05

Pictures start in this album; they are of the forward head, which is
actually a much more complicated installation than the aft. They
continue into the next gallery, which is

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work/04-26&27-05

where you can see the installed product.

This is another start point link:

Forward PVC start

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Finishing_Touches-Readying_To_Splash/5-06-Early

Keep the pipes clean, as well as free of scale. Flush aggressively -
all the while anything's going in the toilet, and then a calculated
full-length rinse (enough water in pump strokes to replace the volume
in the pipes), followed by a similar volume of air. We use 20
strokes each after the continuous flushing under way... The
aggressive rinsing makes sure no urine remains in sea water, which is
what clogs the pipes/hoses with scale. The dry pumps go until the
through hull burps...

If your anti-siphon valve is in working order, what you get is a very
small amount of water at the duckbill/joker valve (the water doesn't
entirely go out with a dry pump), and the rest of the entirety bone
dry. What you have will be, essentially, a dry stack.

The few times we've had to get into our system, even the exit
end is not only clean and scale free, but dry, as proven when we
closed the through hull valve in order to disassemble it. For an
example of that, see this pic, 5 years after installation - it's the
end of the forward head PVC at the Y valve:

Pictures: Flying Pig 2013-2014 Shakedown/Y-Valve and Hose

If there's nothing in it, your pipes can't possibly smell. Use a
rubber sleeve/coupler designed for repairs to drain lines to seal the
joints between toilet/pipe and pipe/Y-or-exit. I made a very careful
butt fit so that the pipe was tight against the hose fitting; a small
section of hose brings the outside diameter to the same as the PVC.
Couplings then slide over both sections, with hose clamps at the ends.
I added another hose clamp at the butt joint; if that somehow wasn't
secure, the ends would prevent against leakage, but in my experience,
there is none, anyway. Getting into it is merely a matter of loosening
the clamps, twisting the coupling to release any pressure-induced
sticky, and slide it up the PVC. Reverse install/replace.

You can see an example of that when I replaced my overboard Y-valve
(holding tank or straight through):

Pictures: Flying Pig 2013-2014 Shakedown/Y-Valve and Hose

So, if you have the time and the inclination, you can replace your
sanitary hose with PVC, and be done with smelly pipe forever. If you
prefer to keep hose, to keep it fresh and scale free, follow the
procedure above about pumping. FWIW, I credit Peggie Hall, the
Princess of Poop, with that concept, LOOOOONG ago, on an NNTP
newsgroup, rec.boats.cruising. You can still find her on the
internet, but she's no longer on newsgroups. She has also written
several books on marine sanitation and controlling boat odors. Highly
recommended.

L8R

Skip



Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at Web-Folio -- Your Portfolio on the Web !
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[Paul Howard]

I replaced hose on the two heads in our catamaran with PVC schedule 40 pipe and used flexible rubber joiners and elbows from Home Depot where necessary. Worked very well, but after about ten years I began to detect odour.
The PVC pipe was good, it was the flexible joints, the 90degree ones especially. dampen a cloth and rub vigorously on the rubber and you will get the smell.
I replaced the rubber joints (less than $5.00 each) and kept the same pipe and that cured the smell.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Paul Howard

I replaced hose on the two heads in our catamaran with PVC schedule 40 pipe and used flexible rubber joiners and elbows from Home Depot where necessary. Worked very well, but after about ten years I began to detect odour.
The PVC pipe was good, it was the flexible joints, the 90degree ones especially. dampen a cloth and rub vigorously on the rubber and you will get the smell.
I replaced the rubber joints (less than $5.00 each) and kept the same pipe and that cured the smell.

That's where the issue is. Simple enough to do, and carrying spares would allow you to do that at your leisure.

However, making a careful butt and covering them as noted and pictured will prevent that. No leakage, and no smell, even after the wreck...

[anacapaisland42]

Just get "food grade" hose
Bill

Originally Posted by SpaceRnglr

So I am not able to locate sanitation hose in Singapore. The usual places to buy boat gear don't carry it... That leaves me with the option to buy from SVB24 and pay a lot for shipping, or find an alternative.

Are there any other types of hoses that people have used? I was thinking possible fuel supply hoses which I know I can get locally?

By the way, this is 1 1/2 inch direct discharge hoses. No holding tanks here...

Thanks for any feedback.

[Cheechako]

I'll comment that if what you are calling "PVC" is the white flexible hose I would not use it below waterline. I did once. It was terrible to get on the fittings, no stretch at all. I discovered after a short time that it was splitting where it was forced onto the hose barb. A definite danger to sinking a boat.

[pilotvelez]

I am also based in Singapore. I found normal marine sanitation hose available at the chandlery at Raffles Marina. Sold by the foot. Exact match to the one I replaced on my catamaran. Not cheap.

[Cheechako]

Avoid this:

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I'll comment that if what you are calling "PVC" is the white flexible hose I would not use it below waterline. I did once. It was terrible to get on the fittings, no stretch at all. I discovered after a short time that it was splitting where it was forced onto the hose barb. A definite danger to sinking a boat.

Hi...

As you didn't quote, I don't know if you were referring to my post about PVC replacing hose.

It's pipe, not hose, in my case.

As Peggie will tell you, if you use hose, it needs to be the outrageously expensive stuff, and even that will eventually smell if you don't do the pumping routine I spell out (hers, actually, cribbed from those many years ago) in my (I know, extraordinarily long) post above.

[warrior 90]

Always wondered .....every once in a while this topic shows up

PVC pipe makes a lot of sense to me.
With a heat gun or hot sand it can even be bent and formed till a certain degree
It lasts longer, is easy to get everywhere and much cheaper
IMHO some parts of the plumbing should be much better when replaced with PVC

But strange..... why is the marine industrie not using it ?