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Old 29-01-2012, 10:00   #76
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

Coachbolt,

Are you insulating the hull of your steel boat with Aerogel ?
Go to Aeroogels web site to view all the video's and the info on condensation charts that show the min. thickness to prevent that issue. They show a bunch of large steel tanks and pipes being insulated without gluing it to the steel. You just have to use Aerogels min. thickness recommendations.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:41   #77
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Summary?: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

So what is the summary on Aerogel.

Are all of the different variations ok?
Do some of them need special treatment?
Are some one of them better than the others ...Spaceloft?

It would be good to have a summary as after reading it all, its a bit confusing and a summary would clear things up.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:13   #78
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

I can't find the link, but Cryogel has foil on one side and is designed to work from minus hundreds of degrees up to about +120f or so. Above that won't damage it, but it's designed to work with cold.
Aerogel is midrange, and Pyrogel is for hot temps.
They all have considerable overlap in temp ranges.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:47   #79
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

Thanks,
I was thinking of putting it on the outside of my Waeco CR80.... what one would be best to use?
Thanks John
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Old 02-02-2012, 13:16   #80
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

If you're putting it over existing insulation, I doubt it would make any difference in which you choose.
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Old 22-04-2012, 08:25   #81
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

Quote:
Originally Posted by YachtManuals View Post
I guess I used the wrong word. Hydrophobic means to repel and not absorb water, which it does. While this is good, it's not likely that our fridges will get water on the outside, so it's a moot point.

The real issue is: water condensing from the vapour in the air. The ebay seller wrongly claims that water from condensation is not a problem with spaceloft. Why do you think that only Cryogel has the water barrier foil on it? Because it's the only version made for cold applications: water vapour (a gas) in the air will condense as it slowly circulates into the spaceloft and reaches the dewpoint temperature at a certain depth into the material. As long as the fridge is on, more vapour condenses and piles up inside the insulation. This may happen rather slowly, but since our fridges tend to be on permanently for years, it will add up over the years. The only way to remove it is to heat it, or possibly by using a dehumidifier, unlikely in a cruising boat. Even if the aerogel nanoparticles themselves are hydrophobic, if they are surrounded by water you can be sure there is loss of insulation within the 'blanket'. Ask any real refrigeration professional and they will say that a vapour barrier on the outside is essential. I have removed several old built-in boat fridges and they all had water present within the layers of foam, particularily in the coldest area.
Hello Everyone, I am the guy selling the Spaceloft on eBay and wanted to clarify something. Thank you YachtManuals for bring my attention the the statement that condensation is not a problem for this stuff. Though I still don't think it is, for the way most boaters encapsulate their refrigeration systems and provide a moisture barrier in some fashion, I went ahead and modified the ad to read it is not a problem when used in conjunction with an adequate vapor barrier. Now, back atcha YachtManuals (just kidding), Cryogel does not have the integrated Mylar vapor barrier attached to it, though it is rated for cryogenic temperatures. However "Cryogel Z" does have the vapor barrier on it. And the spaceloft I am selling on eBay also has a thermal capability well into the cryogenic temperatures of minus 150 degrees C. I don't think any of our refrigeration systems are that cold, so we don't need to be talking about cryogenics. So if you add a vapor barrier to spaceloft you have the functionality of Cryogel Z for the purposes of refrigation aboard a vessel. Aspen Aerogels have manipulated formulas to provide more than one product. But they all have a key ingredient which is Aerogel. That is what creates the thermal magnificence of their products. Most of their products have overlapping thermal capabilities and the assistance they were given by NASA to produce a more useable product is the reason we are all talking about this insulation. The spaceloft I have is a formula made by Aspen Aerogel before they came out with Cryogel line. They have since change the Spaceloft to look grey in color. But this product was the predecessor to the current grey Spaceloft. My personal opinion is it looks and tastes like Cryogel before there was Cryogel. You make the call. I have the specifications for this version of Spaceloft if you would like to compare it to Cryogel. I have also put a torch to it out of my own curiosity and I recommend any doubters do the same thing, because you able to touch the opposite side of the material and my son whom held the torch said the heat was reflecting back at him. And it was, I saw his leather glove starting to smoke. The product did not ever catch on fire. Whether you use Aerogel or not it's still a great messy product that out performs anything I know of. I am currently using it to insulate my engine room deck plates. I purchased a roll of foil on eBay and used it to make a Spaceloft sandwhich, by gluing it with 3M spray adhesive and sealing the edges with aluminum tape. All my work is done outside because of the dust. I have found that Cutting this material is easiest with Wiss M-400 metal shears. I highly recommend wearing a respirator. The dust is a mechanical irritant, so why be irritated. Good luck to everyone taking on there refrigeration projects out there. hope this info helps you. Thanks again to YachtManuals for your input.
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Old 23-04-2012, 06:43   #82
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

I did some further research and found the Spaceloft version I have is from 2010 and has a part number of F100250. Per the ASTM C 177 results for thermal conductivity, this Spaceloft has a lower thermal conductivity rating than the current Cryogel Z product at 32 dgrees F, Cryogel Z has a thermal conductivity of 13.8 mW/m-K and the Spaceloft has 13.1 mW/m-K. The lower the thermal conductivity the more efficient the insulation.
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Old 06-09-2012, 17:28   #83
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

We just finished our fridge build, using Spaceloft as the insulator.

Our freezer and fridge is built into our nav station. Approx 1.5 cubic foot freezer space, 3 cubic foot fridge. Refridgeration is via an Isotherm cold plate driven by the Danfoss DB50 compressor. The insulation is 75-80mm (~3") Spaceloft, with 4 separate foil barrier layers.

The nav station originally looked like this:


We ripped it back to bare hull like so:


We tidied up and laid glass on the bulkheads and painted:


Built a box from 5mm ply, glassed inside and out with light glass and epoxy, painted up with epoxy paints, insulating as we went:


Glued the lid on the inside box, continued to build up the insulation:


finished of the front, made some cosmetic improvements and put on a carbon bench-top:


Bob's yer uncle:
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Old 06-09-2012, 17:38   #84
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

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Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
We just finished our fridge build, using Spaceloft as the insulator.

Our freezer and fridge is built into our nav station. Approx 1.5 cubic foot freezer space, 3 cubic foot fridge. Refridgeration is via an Isotherm cold plate driven by the Danfoss DB50 compressor. The insulation is 75-80mm (~3") Spaceloft, with 4 separate foil barrier layers.
Came out looking great. Where'd you get the carbon top?
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Old 06-09-2012, 17:45   #85
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

Quote:
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Came out looking great. Where'd you get the carbon top?
The top is 9mm (~3/8") marine ply, with a doubler on the front edge to make it look more substantial. We laid carbon cloth onto it with epoxy resin, then built it up with a few coats of varnish. It isn't a hard job, and ends up looking really good (in my opinion, at least).

The hard part of the job is that the chart table is, in fact, bigger than any opning in the boat, so we had to bring the timber into the boat in two pieces, scarf-join them on board, then do all the shaping, fitting, laying carbon, epoxy and varnish work below decks, in the saloon heh.

This carbon look has been a bit of a theme for our refit:
Vanity:


Head:


Its really only about the cosmetic look, we aren't looking to save weight or get any structural stiffness from the carbon, we just think that that look of the laid carbon is nice, and that the black / white theme is cool
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Old 06-09-2012, 18:03   #86
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

With that kind of depth of insulation, you're going to have to find more uses for your electricity !
Congrats on a nice build.
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Old 06-09-2012, 18:04   #87
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

Weyalan
I really like it. Any tricks to getting it to come out clean and flat?
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Old 06-09-2012, 18:33   #88
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

Weyalan,

Very nice build with +3 inches Aerogel at R30 you are set up perfect.
I also like the black carbon fiber on white. It has a very nice contrast to it.
Maybe this winter I will get to my Refer upgrade using Aerogel.
Thank you for sharing your build out with us. Great Job
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Old 06-09-2012, 22:50   #89
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

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Weyalan
I really like it. Any tricks to getting it to come out clean and flat?
Heh, you hit the nail on the head - it isn't quite as easy as it sounds.

For us, the best method has been to paint a layer of resin onto the ply first (in fact, we generally coat all timbers with a 2-pack timber-preserver first anyway), so timber preserver, a light sand, then the epoxy. Let the epoxy go off, remove any amine blush and then sand nice and smooth... it doesn't need to be a super fine finish... 180 or even 120 will do, but you do want it fairly flat. Clean it to remove sanding dust and you are ready for the carbon. Float your carbon cloth on dry, straight over your sanded epoxy surface, then pour your epoxy onto the carbon, spread it around with a brush and/or metal roller (being careful not to disturb the weave) and let that go off. If you want to save time / coats of varnish later, pour on more epoxy before the previous lot goes off - it will self level reasonably well. The reason being that it is a lot easier to fill the hollows in the weave with (relatively thick) epoxy resin than it is to fill them with (relatively think) varnish. Becuse this is cosmetic, not structural, you are going for really resin-rich (the opposite of what you want for structural work, heh).

After that lot of epoxy has gone off, sand it (120grit through to 180 grit, say) to get off the high spots - you probably won't be able to sand down to the low spots at this stage, then apply 2-pack varnish. Sand and varnish and repeat until you have filled all the loqw spots and the surface is flat and glassy.

Like any painting job, the key is surface prep both before and particularly between coats. After the first coat you may wish to go to 180 through to 240grit sanding between coats. It is really worth trying to paint the varnish on in a dust-free environment. Use a tack cloth as well.

To be honest, it isn't as difficult as it might sound - I ain't no painter or even close, but we get a pretty good standard result with our amateur skills. The other good thing with this method is that if you aren't happy with the finish, just sand it back and put on another coat and repeat until you are!
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:36   #90
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Re: Aerogel - Spaceloft Insulation for Fridge / Freezer

Great Job! Specially like the radii- easy to keep clean.
What paint did you use for the white? Spray or brush?
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