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Old 13-06-2018, 16:26   #16
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine View Post
I have never removed a system to change the oil in a unit . Sometimes these units are so well hidden I can barely even get my hands on them . I came to the conclusion that some boats are built around the refrigeration condensing unit .

If I suspect major moisture intrusion into a system I will usually quickly make the repair and leave a vacuum pump on board over night running and come back the next day.

This technique has worked for me .

Regards John
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Hi John, agree some system locations are tight but simply disconnecting the couplings and removing the unit to a more spacious area to work on it, is not difficult.
Simply leaving the vac pump on over night specially in a cold environment will not remove all moisture as pulling a vacuum will cause water to freeze unless heat is applied to the system at the least!

All this makes changing the oil then evacuating much more cost effective and with a greater likelihood of success.

Sure the method you describe will allow the system to work but if moisture (acids) remain in the oil, how long before there are further problems.

John, may I suggest studying the effects of contaminated oil and perhaps start here.. Moisture in POE or PVE oil

Cheers OzePete
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Old 13-06-2018, 18:13   #17
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

John, The story was about the failed theory whether one could actually safely change oil in an Adler Barbour unit or was it even financially practical. The master of changing the subject can not prove his destructive high risk theory.

Posted by the Senior Expert on DIY Non destructive Pleasure Boat Refrigeration.
I represent no favored refrigeration company or job shop that assemblies Ice box conversion refrigeration. No one should infer I am referring to their product unless I mention the product by name.
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Old 13-06-2018, 20:08   #18
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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This is from a certified HVAC person.....

Step 1. Verify refrigerant is in the system. A technician should install a manifold gauge and check initial pressure against a Temperature/pressure chart for the type of refrigerant used.
Step 2. If refrigerant is present, then verify the correct charge of refrigeration. On these systems without accumulators, the system is critically charged. Correct operation is confirmed by a combination of compressor amps, pressure readings on the gauges and a superheat temperature measurement at the outlet of the holding plate.

Moisture in the oil will result in an acid formation and cause the windings in the compressor to short circuit over time but would not have a direct impact on cooling.
The most obvious root cause would be failure to evacuate air from the system when the new holding plates were installed. Of course if you have air in the system you also have moisture in the system.

Step 3. If no refrigerant is in the system, then it should be either charged with nitrogen and the joints bubble tested for leaks or charged with refrigerant if using electronic leak detection. Any leak should be repaired.

After determining if air is present in the system or if there was a leak which was repaired then the system should be evacuated using a vacuum pump. and a MICRON GAUGE. Most techs don't use the micron gauge and just guess .... The micron gauge tells you the system is not only purged of air but dehydrated also. Moisture in the oil will boil off under a deep vacuum but you need the micron gauge to know when it is all out. This could take hours to achieve depending on the level of contamination. Recharge and restore the system after evacuating and recharging.

Based on your description your unit was short cycling, running without cooling then stopped altogether. I think you will either find you have no refrigerant or you have air contamination in the system.

Please post what the solution was.....
Well said.
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Old 14-06-2018, 03:38   #19
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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Well said.
Mazu and deluxe68, Great to see an intelligent analyses that will prevent additional damage to a salvageable Adler Barbour refrigeration system. Too many times destructive advice forces a boater to purchase a complete new refrigeration system.
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Old 14-06-2018, 08:41   #20
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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Old 14-06-2018, 08:57   #21
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

Gentlemen,
A reminder, when professional opinions deteriorate into personal attacks, they will be removed. State your facts and opinions based on those facts in a civil way or let it go. Thanks.
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Old 14-06-2018, 23:19   #22
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

It is so easy to replace the oil and at a cost of about $10 why risk it?
Again... Leak test and repair any leak. Change the oil, fit a proper filter dryer (Type C 050), evacuate and recharge to gauge. Easy, and done right the first time will always give the best result.
Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems

Perhaps you have a video showing the changing of the compressor oil and/or answering Richard's question regarding if you have done this on a boat yourself and what the charge would be for the service ? My boat has pretty good access to the reefer unit (Fridgeaboat air/water cooled) which I've R&R'ed before and it's taken much longer than the times you state ,i.e., This should take all of 15 to 30 minutes, not to mention the time it would take for changing the oil. Has anyone else on this forum tried this procedure ? Also, the risk of something going wrong seems high. I've had good results from Mr. Kollmann's advice and book, so not v. willing to attempt something like this without any collaborating info that specifically addresses marine DC Danfoss type compressors.
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Old 15-06-2018, 00:15   #23
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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It is so easy to replace the oil and at a cost of about $10 why risk it?
Again... Leak test and repair any leak. Change the oil, fit a proper filter dryer (Type C 050), evacuate and recharge to gauge. Easy, and done right the first time will always give the best result.
Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems

Perhaps you have a video showing the changing of the compressor oil and/or answering Richard's question regarding if you have done this on a boat yourself and what the charge would be for the service ? Sorry, I don't have a video but I would have thought the sketch and directions given for this process were fairly simple! Besides very busy lately but will produce a video to prove this and other disputed processes once time allows..

My boat has pretty good access to the reefer unit (Fridgeaboat air/water cooled) which I've R&R'ed before and it's taken much longer than the times you state ,i.e., This should take all of 15 to 30 minutes, not to mention the time it would take for changing the oil. Has anyone else on this forum tried this procedure ? Also, the risk of something going wrong seems high.Wrong really! what can be more wrong than having a compressor with contaminated oil ready to fail anytime? It really is a safe and simple process to change the oil regardless of what is said.

I've had good results from Mr. Kollmann's advice and book, Yes he obviously has provided some good advice and help but like all of us, when he is wrong he too is wrong.. Simple!so not v. willing to attempt something like this without any collaborating info that specifically addresses marine DC Danfoss type compressors.Great, then best you ask Richard to explain with drawings or a video on how he changes the oil on a hermetic compressor! BTW my $10 reference was to the cost of the polyolester oil, not the entire procedure. Also don't change the compressor oil unless there is good reason to suspect moisture contamination like when evaporators leak as they then draw in moisture laden air!
Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems
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Old 15-06-2018, 06:19   #24
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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The fact is Pete, changing oil in an Adler Barbour Danfoss compressor even if it could be done is simple bad advice if moisture removal is the problem. Please stop with the personal insults.
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Old 15-06-2018, 06:59   #25
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

Gentlemen,
Going forward on this, and this will possibly apply to all professional disputes:

1. Claims in dispute will use direct quotes from published sources for all posts for their support. For example quotes must be from product or trade publication manuals or journals with publication dates and page numbers cited so anyone can easily verify them.
2. Claims can employ a video to verify their veracity.
3. Posts involving professional disagreement not in that format will be deleted.
4. No name calling allowed. Treating each other with professional courtesy is required in spite of frustration.
5. If a post is found offensive or possibly against forum rules, all should remember to employ the "report post" button on the post (red triangle) to alert moderators to a problem rather than resorting to insults and attacks in the thread itself.
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Old 15-06-2018, 07:02   #26
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann View Post
John, The story was about the failed theory whether one could actually safely change oil in an Adler Barbour unit or was it even financially practical. The master of changing the subject can not prove his destructive high risk theory.

Posted by the Senior Expert on DIY Non destructive Pleasure Boat Refrigeration.
I represent no favored refrigeration company or job shop that assemblies Ice box conversion refrigeration. No one should infer I am referring to their product unless I mention the product by name.
Hi Richard

In my opinion the cost of such a repair, IE changing compressor oil, Is cost prohibitive to my customers . If I suspect the system is pumping water , I advise replacement. Why spend 500$ on an old unit that may fail from side effects of access moisture in the system, when you can have a new system for a $1000. I do not want the call a month later when my customer is unhappy from a completely failed unit . Once I work on someones system , I own it .

Just a quick note . I was just on a customers boat that lacked couplers .

Regards John
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Old 15-06-2018, 07:57   #27
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Gentlemen,
Going forward on this, and this will possibly apply to all professional disputes:

1. Claims in dispute will use direct quotes from published sources for all posts for their support. For example quotes must be from product or trade publication manuals or journals with publication dates and page numbers cited so anyone can easily verify them.
2. Claims can employ a video to verify their veracity.
3. Posts involving professional disagreement not in that format will be deleted.
4. No name calling allowed. Treating each other with professional courtesy is required in spite of frustration.
5. If a post is found offensive or possibly against forum rules, all should remember to employ the "report post" button on the post (red triangle) to alert moderators to a problem rather than resorting to insults and attacks in the thread itself.
While I have been most annoyed by the style and tone of the arguments between these two, and fervently wish for a resolution on their disagreements,

from a noob learning POV just the fact such tech details are being discussed at all is helpful for the learning process.

I may end up with a long list of issues without consensus-solutions, but that does help later further research and general education.

If the above policy is too rigidly enforced, I'm afraid,

while resulting in a more pleasant environment,

may overly suppress valuable contributions and discussion.

_________
Professionalism means a less confrontational approach, treating even those you believe to be idiots with basic courtesy

Simply stating "this is what I believe is correct" IMO has to be OK, even without documentary evidence,

as long as personal attacks are strictly forbidden, no belittling, sarcasm etc

Even "I'm sorry but that's just plain wrong" should be OK, yes ideally followed by supporting links, explanation, whatever.

Or sometimes even just "we disagree on that" and leave it.

Basically keep the **focus on issues**, whether stating objective facts or giving informed opinions.
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Old 15-06-2018, 08:12   #28
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

If disagreements are handled professionally and respectfully, there is no need or desire to employ draconian measures. These guidelines are meant to defuse and clean up the unprofessional arguments.

Anyone remember "Point/Counterpoint" with Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin?
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Old 15-06-2018, 09:57   #29
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

Roseanne Roseannadanna, "It's always **something**!"
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Old 15-06-2018, 12:07   #30
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Re: Adler Barbour Cold Machine Problems

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Roseanne Roseannadanna, "It's always **something**!"
sometimes we all need a lift...

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