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Old 15-01-2019, 14:33   #196
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
I meant to say cleaning the water maker. Usually it happens in a remote place, and you buy the solutions from an expensive marine store, last time it was Eur 86. My point is that there is a trade-off between maintaining the watermaker and ease of use. I run my current watermaker (Power Survivor 35) every couple of weeks and never pickle it, it still produces 175-180 TDS after three years. If I do not replace it, I will definitely replace the membrane before a longer cruise. Then I looked at the cost of replacing the proprietary membrane and it seems that I can put together a working solution with 3x the output, same efficiency, cheaper membranes for $500-600 total cost. With a proper sized, totally enclosed continuous duty motor, stainless steel pump and all the bells and whistles.
Interesting project.
Most of us take pickling chems with us. They last a very long time. Even paying eu86, this should cover many picklings. If you don't want to pickle just freshwater flush every 3-7 days. You might get away with waiting 2 weeks in the waters you are in. In many places there is too many organics in the water to let it go that long.
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Old 15-01-2019, 15:50   #197
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12 volt watermakers, which one?

I do know that the membrane needs or be correctly size for the water flow. You can be to big or too small.
However I donít know enough to advise you.
Shoot either Tellie or Rich a PM, one of them would likely advise you I bet.

My guess is that one 40í membrane is good for 20 gl per hour at 800 PSI, decrease pressure and output drops, doesnít seem to hurt anything, just lower output, of course there are limits to that, your not making any water at 100 PSI I donít think.
Assuming the diameter etc is the same then that means that a 20í membrane ought to be good for 10 gph.

However I do not know if the diameter etc remains constant with different lengths of membrane, thatís when you need to contact someone that knows.
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Old 15-01-2019, 15:56   #198
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

I think the $100 he spoke of was to clean scaled membranes or ones that have organic growth, possibly.
Not just the normal pickling?
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Old 15-01-2019, 15:56   #199
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
Interesting project.
Most of us take pickling chems with us. They last a very long time. Even paying eu86, this should cover many picklings. If you don't want to pickle just freshwater flush every 3-7 days. You might get away with waiting 2 weeks in the waters you are in. In many places there is too many organics in the water to let it go that long.
I carry the gallon of antifreeze and I also have a bottle of the alkaline cleaning powder .
And a bottle of the Sodium bisulfite for pickling that does the same job ( old school stuff) 1 8 oz bottle will last for many years .
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Old 15-01-2019, 17:07   #200
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
I carry the gallon of antifreeze and I also have a bottle of the alkaline cleaning powder .
And a bottle of the Sodium bisulfite for pickling that does the same job ( old school stuff) 1 8 oz bottle will last for many years .



Just a quick point on carrying the gallon jugs of PG with you. Don't! Instead buy a 4 gallon gas jug and label it PG and pour the contents into that. Years ago when I was first experimenting with PG as a pickling agent I stored 12 single gallon jugs the PG came in in the bilge. One day I opened the floor board and saw a pink river. No one told me these were degradable plastic gallon jugs.
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Old 15-01-2019, 17:50   #201
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Just a quick point on carrying the gallon jugs of PG with you. Don't! Instead buy a 4 gallon gas jug and label it PG and pour the contents into that. Years ago when I was first experimenting with PG as a pickling agent I stored 12 single gallon jugs the PG came in in the bilge. One day I opened the floor board and saw a pink river. No one told me these were degradable plastic gallon jugs.
great info thanks . Also I only do 1 gallon at a time my 35E don't take much .
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Old 15-01-2019, 21:18   #202
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
I am currently testing the pump before I get the membrane. I have let it run for 24 hours continuous, no issues. I am getting 0.21 gpm flow at 13.2A at 800 psi and 0.26 gpm at 600 psi, pretty much in line with the spec sheet on the web site. Based on my calculations, this should be good enough for 3.5 to 4.0 gph product water. All I need is to order a membrane and I am debating on the size.

SV Pizzazz
Spectra watermakers operate at 800 psi.

The Spectra 150 produces 6 gallons /hour @9 amps. To do this the low current feed pump has a pumps 1.7 gallons/minute - 102 gallons per hour. The product water is 6% of the feed water through the membrane.

Using your number of .21 gallons/minute (12.6 gallons/hour) and assuming the same percentage of product water to total flow you will get 6% of that 12.6 gallons or 97 ounces of product water per hour.

Flow rate has to match the membrane as well - too low a flow rate is a problem.
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Old 15-01-2019, 21:41   #203
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

I realize I'm an outlier, at wanting a nominal 30-40gph without using AC power.

Also in not being too concerned about nth degree efficiency issues, since obviously won't be looking for solar to contribute much of the power required.

I'll likely be getting Rich to design the rig, but if anyone comes across suitable pumps, please post. Also not an issue to go 24V if that helps.
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Old 15-01-2019, 23:27   #204
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

Looking for some advice on DIY watermakers OR off the shelf (I am going to have problems with off the shelf prices)

I just started looking at water maker options. One option was to DIY. I want to run it from solar. Realistically now we have about 0.5kws of solar maybe its more ? it does the job for a few overnighters, it will keep us in power through 3 cloudy days with 6 x T105 6v batteries and unlimited days in clear skys. But at the request of my better half we now have pressurised fresh and salt water, another 90lt of fridge/freezer. We also have holding tanks with electric pumps x 2 each. She would like a fresh water rinse each time out of the salt and a shower each day.....me not so much. I estimate we might use 50lt per day.

I intend to travel to remote areas and be self sufficient for weeks, maybe up to 6 weeks at most at a time. I will take a i2200 Honda but the hope is it won't ever be used. I'll take two weeks worth of reserve fresh drinking water in case of problems.

I have room for 1.5kw of solar and more batteries. I'd prefer over kill to marginal.

My hope is to be able to produce 70lt of fresh per day on solar in the tropics. If it's noisy it would be good to make it in an hour if tolerable I don't really care how long it takes.

Where does the 12Vdc solar efficiency lie, to produce 50 -70lt of fresh per day. Do you make 210lt in an hour every third day or do you make 10lt per hour for 7 hours each day.

I don't want to pickle or flush, just turn it on and off when needed. I understand when not travelling I'll need to pickle but when cruising...no.

Lots of questions ...... sorry
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Old 15-01-2019, 23:48   #205
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post

My hope is to be able to produce 70lt of fresh per day on solar in the tropics. If it's noisy it would be good to make it in an hour if tolerable I don't really care how long it takes.

Where does the 12Vdc solar efficiency lie, to produce 50 -70lt of fresh per day. Do you make 210lt in an hour every third day or do you make 10lt per hour for 7 hours each day.

I don't want to pickle or flush, just turn it on and off when needed. I understand when not travelling I'll need to pickle but when cruising...no.

Lots of questions ...... sorry
70 liters is about 19 US gallons. Spectra's Cape Horn model produces 15 gallons/hour at 19 amps. It is a dual pump model that can also be used with one pump for half the product output. Easy to run off of solar and many people do so.

Best to run the watermaker for a minimum of 2 hours at a time. 2 or 3 hours running every third day would be sufficient I think.

Here is the link to the details:
https://www.spectrawatermakers.com/d...ifications.pdf

An alternative would be the Spectra Ventura 150 which produces 6 gallons/hour at 9 amps. A bit less expensive and a single pump system.

Link here: https://www.spectrawatermakers.com/u...23-ventura-150

Both are very quiet as the pumps are not that much more powerful than the ones you use for your pressure water system. Spectra's efficiency is because of the Clark pump multiplier which only requires 80 psi from the feed pump.
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Old 16-01-2019, 01:57   #206
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

I purchased the seawater pro system with the $1000 upgraded pump and motor. I like the Simplicity of the manual system and it works well making just over 20 gallons an hour with a single membrane. and you can pick up the phone and speak with a designer anytime
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Old 16-01-2019, 05:09   #207
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
Looking for some advice on DIY watermakers OR off the shelf (I am going to have problems with off the shelf prices)



I just started looking at water maker options. One option was to DIY. I want to run it from solar. Realistically now we have about 0.5kws of solar maybe its more ? it does the job for a few overnighters, it will keep us in power through 3 cloudy days with 6 x T105 6v batteries and unlimited days in clear skys. But at the request of my better half we now have pressurised fresh and salt water, another 90lt of fridge/freezer. We also have holding tanks with electric pumps x 2 each. She would like a fresh water rinse each time out of the salt and a shower each day.....me not so much. I estimate we might use 50lt per day.



I intend to travel to remote areas and be self sufficient for weeks, maybe up to 6 weeks at most at a time. I will take a i2200 Honda but the hope is it won't ever be used. I'll take two weeks worth of reserve fresh drinking water in case of problems.



I have room for 1.5kw of solar and more batteries. I'd prefer over kill to marginal.



My hope is to be able to produce 70lt of fresh per day on solar in the tropics. If it's noisy it would be good to make it in an hour if tolerable I don't really care how long it takes.



Where does the 12Vdc solar efficiency lie, to produce 50 -70lt of fresh per day. Do you make 210lt in an hour every third day or do you make 10lt per hour for 7 hours each day.



I don't want to pickle or flush, just turn it on and off when needed. I understand when not travelling I'll need to pickle but when cruising...no.



Lots of questions ...... sorry


In my opinion, and realize this is only my opinion.
Your not going to DIY a Watermaker to run off of Solar, reason is there is a lot less power available from Solar than people realize, so therefore to make it work off of Solar, you need to be very efficient.
Enter the Spectra energy recovery pump, if you DIY, your going to need something similar, yes of course you can run a regular DC motor coupled to a regular HP pump, but I almost guarantee that will mean running the Honda to charge the batteries to run the pump, you wonít have enough Solar without having a Spectraís efficiency.

It makes more sense in my opinion to run the Honda and drive the HP pump with AC power and use the remaining power from the Honda to charge the batteries too, or have a BIG alternator and a large inverter and run the Watermaker while your motoring.
To keep your batteries healthy if your the average Joe, your going to need the Honda anyway, cause the Sun doesnít always shine, and I dislike running the Yanmar just to charge the bank, seems a waste.
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Old 16-01-2019, 06:50   #208
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
I realize I'm an outlier, at wanting a nominal 30-40gph without using AC power.

Also in not being too concerned about nth degree efficiency issues, since obviously won't be looking for solar to contribute much of the power required.

I'll likely be getting Rich to design the rig, but if anyone comes across suitable pumps, please post. Also not an issue to go 24V if that helps.



If you go with 24Volts only a Spectra can do 30-40 gph efficiently. If you want cheap 30-40gph then you have to go AC to make any sense.
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Old 16-01-2019, 08:22   #209
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

John is determined to have a DC only boat, with a DC generator.
Before I actually started outfitting ours, I too thought that was the way to go, ideally with a rather large Life-Po bank and a DC generator to recharge it.
It sounds good on paper, but in reality it breaks down.
I found it far easier and less expensive and I believe more efficient to generate AC power and convert it to DC with large, commercially available battery chargers when necessary, and if I wanted to drive 1 or 2 HP electric motors, to do so with AC power.
Smaller motors are fine driven off of DC of course.

As I see it the larger AC powered Watermakers swap efficiency for cost and less complexity, I doubt any of them are considered efficient, so you realistically have to run a generator that burns fuel, taking off the AC motor and replacing it with a DC motor does not increase efficiency, it may in fact decrease it, but your still going to have to run a generator, cause itís going to pull somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 amps at 13VDC to run both a 1.5 hp motor and itís boost pump, to make 30 gl an hour of water.
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Old 16-01-2019, 08:52   #210
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Re: 12 volt watermakers, which one?

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Originally Posted by motion30 View Post
I purchased the seawater pro system with the $1000 upgraded pump and motor. I like the Simplicity of the manual system and it works well making just over 20 gallons an hour with a single membrane. and you can pick up the phone and speak with a designer anytime
Seawater pro offer a range of pumps now. Their DC pump is run off a 0.5hp or 375w motor. If it is true that it produces 20 gallons an hour (75l), then the 30a draw doesn't seem so bad to me. I could easily live with that and just run it for an hour a day or every other day.

It seems too good to be true though, as presumably people would be using this rather than a cat pump requiring 1-1.5hp

EDIT: Seems I missed that the system produces 12gph with a single membrane, and needs a second to produce 20. Still, less than 0.7a per litre isn't too bad.
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