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Old 18-05-2015, 15:28   #16
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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Originally Posted by sowwaninii View Post
I agree with short-hauling the boat and draining oil/repair of seals. Potentially, by attempting to sucking the oil out you create negative pressue and could actually suck more water into the saildrive.
I have no idea how he plans on removing the oil? I hope it by removing the plug at the bottom on the drive, sucking it out may well leave all the water at the bottom?
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Old 18-05-2015, 15:41   #17
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
my trouble is that oil on dipstick looks fine (i think) and do not know of reliable way to determine if water in or not.

how "milky" looks like ?

Is this milky ? Yeah, I know oil is above upper mark. But next time I checked oil was again close to bottom mark as always.
I don't see any water in that oil. I use the mercruiser high performance gear lube in mine and it has the same green coloration. As it gets older and dirty it gets less transparent and browner. When it has water in it it looks like melted pistachio ice cream. A little water looks like diluted pistachio ice cream, a lot looks like straight pistachio ice cream. If the oil is old and dirty when it gets water in it it looks almost like chocolate milk. Don't ask me how I know all of these variations.

My experience is that if you check the oil when it's still warm it will read higher than if you let it cool off.
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Old 18-05-2015, 16:10   #18
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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I have no idea how he plans on removing the oil? I hope it by removing the plug at the bottom on the drive, sucking it out may well leave all the water at the bottom?
Procedure is nicely described in manual. You get out everything minus 0.15 L. Process does not create negative pressure, not much at least.

Because I will run propellers to warm up, expect that water will be mixed with oil 10 min after stop and will get large part of water out.

If after change see no evidence of water, will not bother with second oil change as there is no problem.

Haulout in Sydeny is $1,300 & very expensive hour on dry. Any delays with anything get costly quick.
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Old 18-05-2015, 16:13   #19
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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I don't see any water in that oil. I use the mercruiser high performance gear lube in mine and it has the same green coloration. As it gets older and dirty it gets less transparent and browner. When it has water in it it looks like melted pistachio ice cream. A little water looks like diluted pistachio ice cream, a lot looks like straight pistachio ice cream. If the oil is old and dirty when it gets water in it it looks almost like chocolate milk. Don't ask me how I know all of these variations.

My experience is that if you check the oil when it's still warm it will read higher than if you let it cool off.
Thanks for that. Good stuff ! I also use mercruiser as per manual.

Does emulsion gets away after some time, I mean water separates after a while and oil looks pretty again, masking the water issue ?
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Old 18-05-2015, 16:22   #20
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

If you have water in the oil and you run the motor at a full load the water will boil off, fairly quickly. Of course if the seal is still leaking it will fill up with water as the hot oil cools down and contracts, thereby pulling in some new water through the seal/. Mac
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Old 18-05-2015, 16:36   #21
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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If you have water in the oil and you run the motor at a full load the water will boil off, fairly quickly. Of course if the seal is still leaking it will fill up with water as the hot oil cools down and contracts, thereby pulling in some new water through the seal/. Mac
That is exactly what I anticipate.

I will not run at max load any more. Water should still mix with oil and majority can be extracted by oil change. I will undo dipstick after turning off engine to avoid negative pressure & water suck in - assuming there is water in the system.

I presume seal hold up to certain negative pressure. Only above pressure starts leaking.

Even if I do not find water in saildrive, I want to have a plan to manage water in saildrive underway and not rush to first mechanic, is what is this exercise about.

Saying "reliable Yanmars" sounds like a joke, if you have to break your stay in nice place abruptly because of water ingress.
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Old 19-05-2015, 07:36   #22
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
Procedure is nicely described in manual. You get out everything minus 0.15 L. Process does not create negative pressure, not much at least.

Because I will run propellers to warm up, expect that water will be mixed with oil 10 min after stop and will get large part of water out.

If after change see no evidence of water, will not bother with second oil change as there is no problem.

Haulout in Sydeny is $1,300 & very expensive hour on dry. Any delays with anything get costly quick.
I'd I thought I lived in expensive country.
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Old 19-05-2015, 08:06   #23
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
Thanks for that. Good stuff ! I also use mercruiser as per manual.

Does emulsion gets away after some time, I mean water separates after a while and oil looks pretty again, masking the water issue ?
I've never seen the water separate out once it's emulsified. That's not say it won't happen if it sits for a very long time. The last time my prop shaft seal went the oil actually flowed out of the dipstick hole when I took the dip stick out. I closed it ran it for 10 minutes to emulsify the new water, turned it off and left it off. It took me 3 days to get the boat hauled and when I drained it it was still emulsified.

As you might have already guessed, Hard rock Candy's advice about running it hard to boil off the water is bad advice. My guess is that he does not own one of these units and has never tried this on his own boat. The only way this would work is if you left the cap off of the top so the unit would not pressurize. Of course, a lot of oil would just blow out of the open cap. If you left it closed it would destroy your drive just as it did mine when the seals blow out from the steam pressure.
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Old 19-05-2015, 12:34   #24
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

arsenelupiga. Just sail across the Tasman Sea to Auckland NZ They'll do it cheaper here.
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Old 19-05-2015, 15:25   #25
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Although moisture could be removed with heat, you also affect viscosity and do not remove any of the salts and minerals. I still believe a line to the bottom of the drive, to draw off water, would be beneficial. Maybe a hollow drive shaft perhaps with a vacuum and catch container. Another at the the top, to allow venting for expansion. It's not a question of if but when on the drive unit.
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Old 19-05-2015, 15:46   #26
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

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Although moisture could be removed with heat, you also affect viscosity and do not remove any of the salts and minerals. I still believe a line to the bottom of the drive, to draw off water, would be beneficial. Maybe a hollow drive shaft perhaps with a vacuum and catch container. Another at the the top, to allow venting for expansion. It's not a question of if but when on the drive unit.
that is interesting idea, however, I could not find drawing of SD 50 leg to plan something like that. Looks like some kind of yanmar secret.

Does line have space to go all the way down when pushed from dipstick opening ?

Still, first thing, have to determine if there is water at all. Captain Bill thinks no water. Wont do anything if no issues.

I plan to design this process to fill time between next regular haul when seals can be replaced, or when one is away. Hate idea to rush to slip. Been told to take boat out 3x in 9 months of my ownership because of water in saildrives

Don't want to change internal pressures etc during operation, at least not before I convince myself there is no side effects.
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Old 22-05-2015, 14:44   #27
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

I've never understood why saildrives don't have an oil reservoir mounted above the waterline. This would surely do away with a large part of the problem of water ingress. Have done it on client's boats as a stop gap measure as the current haulout facilities in Vanuatu are not very good.
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Old 22-05-2015, 15:21   #28
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
that is interesting idea, however, I could not find drawing of SD 50 leg to plan something like that. Looks like some kind of yanmar secret.

Does line have space to go all the way down when pushed from dipstick opening ?

Still, first thing, have to determine if there is water at all. Captain Bill thinks no water. Wont do anything if no issues.

I plan to design this process to fill time between next regular haul when seals can be replaced, or when one is away. Hate idea to rush to slip. Been told to take boat out 3x in 9 months of my ownership because of water in saildrives

Don't want to change internal pressures etc during operation, at least not before I convince myself there is no side effects.
I'm not sure why you would be advised to haul the boat 3 times in 9 months. Internal diagrams are included in the SD40/50 service manual which can be down loaded on line from a couple of free sources. The SD40 had an oil removal tube that goes down into the foot of the drive. One can pull a vacuum on that line and remove the oil. It pulls the oil at the bottom first so should remove most of the water. I don't own an SD50 but they should be similar. Another alternative is to put a small amount of positive pressure on the top. It's easier on the sd40s than on the 50s because the dip stick hole is smaller, at least in the early models. This should be done with a hand pump as putting too much pressure on it can damage the oil seals. The positive pressure on top forces the oil and water up the drain tube. I find this easier and more effective than pulling a vacuum on the drain hole.

Like I said, I see no water in that oil. If you want to be sure just take a sample up through the drain tube. It will contain a little oil itself, but should be pulling oil out of the foot withing 50 ml's or so. If there's water in the bottom, you'll soon know.
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Old 23-05-2015, 01:16   #29
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

thanks Captain Bill, will have closer look. At present saildrive is still a bit of mistery for me.

i have run propeller for 30 min.

Immediately after stopping, checked oil in saildrive to see pressure. On my surprise there was no pressure. Oil went out of dipstick hole slowly, like when milk boils over. Oil was full of air bubbles. Not that hot.

Closed with dipstick and cleaned.

Changed oil, after, and old oil looks like new, just a bit darker. I am sure, saildrive will not mind extra new oil between scheduled changes.

Looks like pressure does not build that easily. Will continue observing. Maybe there is a vent built in saildrive...

No traces of water or milky anything.

So, thats good. No fix if nothing broken.
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Old 23-05-2015, 01:51   #30
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Re: Yanmar saildrive - water leak management

however, that throws out my theory that if water ingress, opening dipstick will not suck water in. Because oil will spill out.

Then maybe theory of positive and negative pressure in saildrive is a bit of suburban myth.

Closing water intake via saildrive and creating seprate thruhull, will not cool oil. This may have side effects on seals.
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