Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-12-2014, 19:12   #1
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Hello.

Most recently built boats have their wheel on a pedestal in the cockpit.

I have come across a few boats that have the wheel NOT on a pedestal, but in a position that looks like those on more traditional (older) styled boats or old boats.

I don't know what this position of wheel is called. I am curious. What is this type of wheel position called?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Wheel Traditional 4 Allied Princess 36 1977 2.jpg
Views:	257
Size:	30.6 KB
ID:	93766   Click image for larger version

Name:	Macintosh cutter.jpg
Views:	224
Size:	40.8 KB
ID:	93767  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Wheel traditional 3.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	49.8 KB
ID:	93768   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wheel Traditional.jpg
Views:	223
Size:	49.1 KB
ID:	93769  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Wheel Traditional 4 Allied Princess 36 1977.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	63.8 KB
ID:	93770  
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:14   #2
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,132
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Hello.

Most recently built boats have their wheel on a pedestal in the cockpit.

I have come across a few boats that have the wheel NOT on a pedestal, but in a position that looks like those on more traditional (older) styled boats or old boats.

I don't know what this position of wheel is called. I am curious. What is this type of wheel position called?
Round.
__________________

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:15   #3
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,132
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

I had an Eventide with that sort of wheel conversion.
I put it back to Tiller. (Back in the 80s)
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:31   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Uncomfortable to steer? Awkward? Great for backing up?

I dunno...

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:39   #5
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Uncomfortable to steer? Awkward? Great for backing up?

I dunno...

Jim


Might be originally designed for Med Mooring and that would make it easier when backing into the marina position assigned to the boat.

Yes, this does look more uncomfortable to me, but then I am accustomed to tillers (which are natural feeling) and the more common wheel position on a pedestal. But, I have never steered with one of these (I am calling) "traditional" positioned wheels.
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:42   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Haven, MI
Boat: 1970 C&C 30 Redwing
Posts: 21
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

It looks like a worm gear steering mechanism for an Allied boat. Unlike a steering pedestal, worm gear steering requires more space to accommodate a direct connection between the wheel and the drive gear.
__________________
Bobalu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:47   #7
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Here is a photo showing a real ship's wheel as handled by the crew. Ship was "Passat."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Wheel of Ship PASSAT.jpg
Views:	303
Size:	364.9 KB
ID:	93771  
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 19:51   #8
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,880
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

I would call it more "early yacht wheel design" rather than traditional

My guess....
When first converting from tiller to wheel, early designs kept the position very close to rudder stock so that they could more easily revert back to tiller, if they had linkage problems.

As wheel solutions became proven and accepted, they evolved towards more comfortable and sophisticated positions that better facilitated handover and lookout.
__________________
Pelagic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 20:02   #9
Registered User
 
Tx J's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Texas
Boat: Newport 28 & Robalo 20
Posts: 363
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Hello.

Most recently built boats have their wheel on a pedestal in the cockpit.

I have come across a few boats that have the wheel NOT on a pedestal, but in a position that looks like those on more traditional (older) styled boats or old boats.

I don't know what this position of wheel is called. I am curious. What is this type of wheel position called?

How 'bout: 'Bawl Buster', 'Eunuchmaker', 'Neutralizer', 'OwwwieWowie', ? .
__________________
Tx J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 21:08   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

The wheels at a slight angle and wheel axle facing aft are Worm Gear wheels as Bobalu said. They were relatively common 40-60 years ago. More robust than cable steering but not much feedback. The Allied Seawind 30, the first FRP boat to circumnavigate, typically had this type of wheel.

The others that you pictured look like typical wheels for cable steered pedestals just not the most current designs or locations.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 21:47   #11
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,880
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

I remember when most sailboats had some kind of facility for emergency steering.

Not sure if that is still the case?
__________________
Pelagic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 21:52   #12
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Here is another photo of a traditional steering. The wheel was large to facilitate the forces necessary to control the rudder. The hub (horizontal capstan) was likewise large and the steering line was wrapped around the capstan. Unless the capstan was facing forward, the pilot necessarily had to stand to one side of the wheel to steer. Lines from the capstan led through blocks to the side of the vessel and then below deck and to a very familiar looking tiller. You can see the turning blocks below the capstan. These were permitted to travel with the steering lines as they walked fore & aft on the capstan. This photo is of the Bounty in Green Bay, Wis, 2010. There were other tall ships there and all had very similar steering mechanics. The other photos, Europa, shows their steering capstan in an enclosed box. You can make out the lines below & the heavy structure.

I wonder if the boats you are seeing are using this same general layout. The advantage would be that all of the steering is well aft and then does not clutter up any of the below deck cabin space. If your vessel had a lazerette, all access would be from an aft deck hatch.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Green Bay 182.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	436.9 KB
ID:	93782   Click image for larger version

Name:	Green Bay 187.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	431.6 KB
ID:	93783  

Click image for larger version

Name:	BARK EUROPA.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	57.1 KB
ID:	93784  
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 21:59   #13
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The wheels at a slight angle and wheel axle facing aft are Worm Gear wheels as Bobalu said. They were relatively common 40-60 years ago. More robust than cable steering but not much feedback. The Allied Seawind 30, the first FRP boat to circumnavigate, typically had this type of wheel.

The others that you pictured look like typical wheels for cable steered pedestals just not the most current designs or locations.
Hi.
Thanks for answering (you and the others above).

The Allied Seawind IS in one of those photos I uploaded. You are correct there.

But, ALL of the photos I uploaded in the first set are similar in the sense that the wheel shaft DOES NOT go to the pedestal (even IF there is a pedestal compass binnacle in forward of the wheels). Each one has that same "reverse" (worm gear type) wheel placement with the shaft going to the stern.

I just assumed there would be some common name for this type of wheel placement, but it seems everyone just refers to it as a "worm gear wheel" or something like that.

While the mechanical connection is one aspect of what I see, the other is the way the wheel is situated, and how the helmsman will sit beside, or perhaps behind, but never stand behind this placement of wheel, unless he steers with his feet.

Anyway, just curious about the correct terminology.

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far, in serious answers, or humorous ones.
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2014, 22:46   #14
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

The Lazyjack 32 also has that wheel setup.
__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2014, 06:06   #15
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,949
Images: 6
Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The Allied Seawind 30, the first FRP boat to circumnavigate, typically had this type of wheel.
Many of the Allied models have the wheels mounted this way.
__________________

__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
wheel, cal

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: CPT Wheel Pilot w/wheel adaptor Jonathan Reiter Classifieds Archive 10 12-05-2013 16:49
For Sale: CPT Wheel Pilot w/wheel adaptor Jonathan Reiter Classifieds Archive 5 30-11-2012 09:47
Stacked V Berth vs Traditional Greenman Monohull Sailboats 6 09-03-2009 15:05
Traditional Navigation GordMay Pacific & South China Sea 0 11-08-2005 12:49



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.