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16-12-2014, 18:12
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#1
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,103
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What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Hello.
Most recently built boats have their wheel on a pedestal in the cockpit.
I have come across a few boats that have the wheel NOT on a pedestal, but in a position that looks like those on more traditional (older) styled boats or old boats.
I don't know what this position of wheel is called. I am curious. What is this type of wheel position called?
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16-12-2014, 18:14
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#2
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand
Hello.
Most recently built boats have their wheel on a pedestal in the cockpit.
I have come across a few boats that have the wheel NOT on a pedestal, but in a position that looks like those on more traditional (older) styled boats or old boats.
I don't know what this position of wheel is called. I am curious. What is this type of wheel position called?
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Round.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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16-12-2014, 18:15
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
I had an Eventide with that sort of wheel conversion.
I put it back to Tiller. (Back in the 80s)
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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16-12-2014, 18:31
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,134
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Uncomfortable to steer? Awkward? Great for backing up?
I dunno...
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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16-12-2014, 18:39
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#5
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,103
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
Uncomfortable to steer? Awkward? Great for backing up?
I dunno...
Jim
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Might be originally designed for Med Mooring and that would make it easier when backing into the marina position assigned to the boat.
Yes, this does look more uncomfortable to me, but then I am accustomed to tillers (which are natural feeling) and the more common wheel position on a pedestal. But, I have never steered with one of these (I am calling) "traditional" positioned wheels.
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16-12-2014, 18:42
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Haven, MI
Boat: 1970 C&C 30 Redwing
Posts: 21
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
It looks like a worm gear steering mechanism for an Allied boat. Unlike a steering pedestal, worm gear steering requires more space to accommodate a direct connection between the wheel and the drive gear.
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16-12-2014, 18:47
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#7
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,103
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Here is a photo showing a real ship's wheel as handled by the crew. Ship was "Passat."
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16-12-2014, 18:51
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#8
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
I would call it more "early yacht wheel design" rather than traditional
My guess....
When first converting from tiller to wheel, early designs kept the position very close to rudder stock so that they could more easily revert back to tiller, if they had linkage problems.
As wheel solutions became proven and accepted, they evolved towards more comfortable and sophisticated positions that better facilitated handover and lookout.
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16-12-2014, 19:02
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Texas
Boat: Newport 28 & Robalo 20
Posts: 386
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand
Hello.
Most recently built boats have their wheel on a pedestal in the cockpit.
I have come across a few boats that have the wheel NOT on a pedestal, but in a position that looks like those on more traditional (older) styled boats or old boats.
I don't know what this position of wheel is called. I am curious. What is this type of wheel position called?
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How 'bout: 'Bawl Buster', 'Eunuchmaker', 'Neutralizer', 'OwwwieWowie', ? .
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16-12-2014, 20:08
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#10
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
The wheels at a slight angle and wheel axle facing aft are Worm Gear wheels as Bobalu said. They were relatively common 40-60 years ago. More robust than cable steering but not much feedback. The Allied Seawind 30, the first FRP boat to circumnavigate, typically had this type of wheel.
The others that you pictured look like typical wheels for cable steered pedestals just not the most current designs or locations.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
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16-12-2014, 20:47
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#11
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
I remember when most sailboats had some kind of facility for emergency steering.
Not sure if that is still the case?
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16-12-2014, 20:52
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 6,353
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Here is another photo of a traditional steering. The wheel was large to facilitate the forces necessary to control the rudder. The hub (horizontal capstan) was likewise large and the steering line was wrapped around the capstan. Unless the capstan was facing forward, the pilot necessarily had to stand to one side of the wheel to steer. Lines from the capstan led through blocks to the side of the vessel and then below deck and to a very familiar looking tiller. You can see the turning blocks below the capstan. These were permitted to travel with the steering lines as they walked fore & aft on the capstan. This photo is of the Bounty in Green Bay, Wis, 2010. There were other tall ships there and all had very similar steering mechanics. The other photos, Europa, shows their steering capstan in an enclosed box. You can make out the lines below & the heavy structure.
I wonder if the boats you are seeing are using this same general layout. The advantage would be that all of the steering is well aft and then does not clutter up any of the below deck cabin space. If your vessel had a lazerette, all access would be from an aft deck hatch.
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16-12-2014, 20:59
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#13
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,103
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi
The wheels at a slight angle and wheel axle facing aft are Worm Gear wheels as Bobalu said. They were relatively common 40-60 years ago. More robust than cable steering but not much feedback. The Allied Seawind 30, the first FRP boat to circumnavigate, typically had this type of wheel.
The others that you pictured look like typical wheels for cable steered pedestals just not the most current designs or locations.
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Hi.
Thanks for answering (you and the others above).
The Allied Seawind IS in one of those photos I uploaded. You are correct there.
But, ALL of the photos I uploaded in the first set are similar in the sense that the wheel shaft DOES NOT go to the pedestal (even IF there is a pedestal compass binnacle in forward of the wheels). Each one has that same "reverse" (worm gear type) wheel placement with the shaft going to the stern.
I just assumed there would be some common name for this type of wheel placement, but it seems everyone just refers to it as a "worm gear wheel" or something like that.
While the mechanical connection is one aspect of what I see, the other is the way the wheel is situated, and how the helmsman will sit beside, or perhaps behind, but never stand behind this placement of wheel, unless he steers with his feet.
Anyway, just curious about the correct terminology.
Thanks to everyone who has replied so far, in serious answers, or humorous ones.
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16-12-2014, 21:46
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,212
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
The Lazyjack 32 also has that wheel setup.
__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
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17-12-2014, 05:06
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,009
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Re: What Is This Called? Traditional Wheel Position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi
The Allied Seawind 30, the first FRP boat to circumnavigate, typically had this type of wheel.
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Many of the Allied models have the wheels mounted this way.
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