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Old 24-12-2007, 21:05   #1
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Stuck - flange on prop shaft

While the yacht is out of the water we did some major work on the stern tube and shaft. Apart from consuming way more time than we had allowed on the hardstand the shaft flange still remains on the shaft and we need to get it off so we can hook up to our new (used) engine a little down the track.

The shaft is 1 &1/4" SS with tapered ends, keyways and threaded bits on both ends, one for the prop and one for the flange. We did get the prop off but there is no way this flange is going to budge !!!

So far I have tried a big gear puller I bought from an auto supermarket, plenty of torque, it managed to bend the flange where the bolts go through to marry to the gearbox. I had removed the big nut from the end before trying it. So when we do get the flange off we will have to straighten it as best we can then get it machined to reface it. I was quoted $515 AUD (~$400 US) for a new flange, so if we can use the old one we will.

There are no hidden grub screws in the flange that I can see.

I have tried heat, hammering and brute force. Any other suggestions ? Explosives are probably the next step.

Ciao

Mick
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Old 24-12-2007, 21:24   #2
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Mick, I'm guessing that if the flange is not machined (lathed) on both sides it will be out of balance and create major problems down the line. I wonder how much that machine shop work would cost versus a new flange?

I don't know if you can get these products in Oz but in the US we have Kroil (available only from the manufacturer, you'll find them on the web) and PBlaster, which is available in retail stores. Both are penetrants that chemically attack rust and other bonds, not just lubricants like the famous WD-40. One shot of Kroil or PBlaster and you get religion--because heavily rusted bolts just spin off without any trouble. If you can get those products, I'd try using them.

The other option is to freeze the flange and shaft, instead of using heat. You can use a CO2 extinguisher, or pack a slush made of chipped dry ice and alcohol around the parts. (Cheaper.) Get those parts frozen down solid, and they often will come apart with just a smack. You probably also could use liquid nitrogen but that's on the dangerous side--it is so much colder that there is a risk of shattering the metal, or the hull, or body parts. With CO2 you just need some care against frostbite and proper ventilation.
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Old 24-12-2007, 21:27   #3
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Try putting a small socket between the flanges and slowly tighten the bolts. The clamping should slide the shaft out of the flange.
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Old 24-12-2007, 21:31   #4
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The shaft is out of the vessel so I have to work on it while it is free.

I had not known about the rust remover products that you mentioned, WD40 did not work. I will have to google and see if there is a similar product here in Oz. Guess that I could soak it in a phosphoric acid solution ?

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Old 24-12-2007, 21:53   #5
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cut it off and have a new one made. You've already bent the mounting face.
An angle grinder with a cut off disk works best. Cut it 180 deg apart and it should fall off.
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Old 24-12-2007, 22:22   #6
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Could not find Kroil in Oz but I did find PB Blaster, looks like direct dealing with the manufacturers in Sydney. Blaster - PB Blaster

Not sure if in fact it is an Aussie company after reading the blurb. Never heard of it if it is.

Yes, the angle grinder is an option and was likely, but it will be a lot easier to get some refacing done locally here in the countryside at a automotive workshp than to have a new flange made up by the specialists in Sydney ( and they do not reopen until the 14th Jan and my little job is on the bottom of the list.

I had not considered the balance issuel.
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Old 25-12-2007, 12:13   #7
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Since you have the shaft and coupling out of the boat, why not take the whole thing to the machine shop where they can use their hydraulic press to disassemble it? They can then do any necessary machining to coupling and/or shaft and you will be back in business. I don't think this little problem will be able to withstand a big hydraulic press.
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Old 25-12-2007, 12:33   #8
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cut it off and have a new one made. You've already bent the mounting face.
An angle grinder with a cut off disk works best. Cut it 180 deg apart and it should fall off.
Agreed.......

You may be able to get it off by heating it with an acetelene welding torch....(not a propane torch) but it is already deformed and getting it to run true again will be very difficult.
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Old 25-12-2007, 16:37   #9
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I still would think it is never going to balance properly again, but a trip to the machine shop (for their opinion and/or the hydraulic press) might be in order. Sometimes it pays to pay for the services of an expert, or at least their opinion.

Phosphoric acid might do it--but I've had mixed results with that even on simple rust. PBlaster somehow sucks itself into the cracks (unless most phosphoric jellies) and then does something that releases the rust. The first time I saw it used was on an antenna mast that had been in place, exposed, for some 20 years. The bolts wouldn't move. Ten seconds later they just spun off and I decided it was one of those products that HAD to be on my shelf, too.

But since it is out of the boat...the machine shop. Or, if you've got an ice house or ice cream shop with an ultra-cold freezer and a friendly owner...let it cold soak overnight in their freezer, then give it a whack.

By the way, when you reassemble this? Be generous about using an antiseize compound on the surfaces before you assemble them. Whoever does the job next time around will say a small prayer of thanks for what you did.<G>
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Old 25-12-2007, 21:45   #10
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RE Kroil, I had a box of it sent out from the US, unfortunately any magic it contained must have stayed there, I have found it no better or worse that CRC 665 or WD40 or any of the other proprietry brands available here in NZ. I do agree with the disc grinder solution though, if heat wont shift it and as it is out of the boat that would be the simplest solution, Measure it up prior to cutting, any machinist worth his salt should be able to duplicate it if one of the shelf is unavailable.
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Old 26-12-2007, 08:51   #11
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Steve, I don't know that CRC number offhand, but I'm surprised it didn't outperform WD40 for you. Maybe your Customs people confiscated the magic ingredient before they passed the box along? Or maybe you get better WD40 down there?<G>
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Old 26-12-2007, 13:55   #12
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I'll stand by the Kroil product. I use to rebuild large valves and that's what is used in the tear down process. Without it, bolts and nuts usually seize together.

The best way to use it is to heat the part to just under boiling temperature and squirt it in the joints or to let it soak over night.

BTW Diesel fuel works pretty good too! it's just flammable. use for soaking only!

As for the coupler, most I've seen were mounted on straight shafts. It sounds as though yours is tapered. If so, it should come off EZer then a straight shaft.

But if it's out of the boat, take it to a Machine shop as mentioned above, and have it pressed off. They may even see why it's stuck, something missed possibly.

And depending on how bent it is, will determine if it's re-machinable. I'd be more worried about cracks then the balance! An old zink would throw off a shaft more then an ounce of steel at the tranny.

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Old 26-12-2007, 15:02   #13
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I got an email response from Kroil int he US, this is the contact I was given:

Furmanite
p: (03) 9285 2200 f: (03) 9645 2948
http://www.furmanite.com.au


I will see if anyone is there latter today.
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Old 26-12-2007, 15:47   #14
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And depending on how bent it is, will determine if it's re-machinable. I'd be more worried about cracks then the balance! An old zink would throw off a shaft more then an ounce of steel at the tranny.

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Balance has nothing to do with it. The surface of the flange must be perfectly square with the shaft. If it isn't you cannot get proper alignment of the prop-shaft.

If you can put the prop-shaft in a lathe and resurface the face of the flange, after getting it off an re-installing it, that would be ideal. Maybe even better than a new flange.
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Old 26-12-2007, 16:26   #15
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Use a bigger hammer. Several decent whacks on the side 90 degress form the key. Make sure the other side of the coupling is well supported. Never failed me in 25 years of this sort of work.
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