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Old 26-06-2013, 16:33   #1
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Saildrive Stuck in reverse

Hello,
I have a Volvo MS25S saildrive (Volvo md2040 engine), and it is now stuck in reverse -- so I'm looking for ideas on how to fix it.
I'm in a pretty remote location in Fiji so access to a mechanic is unlikely at the moment. Though I can get to one before too long if necessary. (I've looked at the other couple of similar threads, but they pertained to a yanmar, and so far haven't been helpful).

I shifted into reverse rather quickly yesterday in order to try to avoid a mostly submerged buoy. The engine quit, and the transmission is stuck in reverse.
I've tried diving and working the prop back and forth, but I can't really budge it.
I've tried starting the engine even though it is stuck in gear, but the engine won't start.

Any ideas? I'm guessing I need to start taking things apart, but could use any ideas/guidance available. I'm mechanical, but haven't ever taken a transmission apart. I do have the manual and schematics on board.

Thanks,
Arthur
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Old 26-06-2013, 16:35   #2
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

I just thought of a couple of more bits of info that may be useful.
Its not the cable or the control lever. I've disconnected the cable and it, and the lever, move freely, while the lever on top of the transmission remains stuck in the reverse position.

Thanks again,
Arthur
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Old 26-06-2013, 16:35   #3
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Which transmission do you have? MSB?

SC
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Old 26-06-2013, 16:45   #4
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

It is the MS25S transmission. (2.47:1 version)
There doesn't seem to be a separate number for the transmission versus the drive leg. The manual and schematics for the MS25S cover the entire unit of transmission and drive leg, and I've not yet seen anything separate for the two...
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Old 27-06-2013, 04:46   #5
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

dear arthur if you have the manual and all the drawings and knowledge open the upper cover part and check the movement by hand reverse-forward selector.there are 3 srings 3 pins without spring at the back and 3 pins with springs inside the main sleeve. in my schematic drawing version year 2010 is the number 21 until 29 , check also the 'shift yoke' part no 4.The volvo saildrive is the same with mechanical reversing gears of ZF in case you have overhauled one
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Old 27-06-2013, 12:27   #6
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

From an experience marine engineer and delivery skipper; (and volvo trained transmission engineer)

You have to start the engine. Trust is required here, the yoke (clutch cone) that MARINE ENGINNER refers too has a circumfrential grove that the selector tang engages with. This grove has a minute "wooble" that when the engine is running disengages the clutch cone....
Your engine probably wont stat because of an 'in-gear' protection circuit. Either by-pas the circuit Or
KEEP CLEAR OF BELTS AND PULLIES
Turn on key switch identify the starter solenoid (follow + battery cable) place metallic object (old screw driver) across big terminal + cable attaches to and little cable terminal (there is only one) this will spark bit but you engine will start IN GEAR.
Firmly move the gear lever into neutral - job done.
Hope this helps
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Old 27-06-2013, 13:02   #7
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRoss76 View Post
From an experience marine engineer and delivery skipper; (and volvo trained transmission engineer)
You have to start the engine..
Hope this helps
That kind of sucks, what if you stall somehow, (motor does something wierd which they can all do from time to time,) you have to find a way to disengage / bypass the neutral safety switch, prior to starting and getting it out of gear, meanwhile your drifting or being blown into something? Is this all Saildrives or just a certain models?
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Old 27-06-2013, 13:13   #8
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
That kind of sucks, what if you stall somehow, (motor does something wierd which they can all do from time to time,) you have to find a way to disengage / bypass the neutral safety switch, prior to starting and getting it out of gear, meanwhile your drifting or being blown into something? Is this all Saildrives or just a certain models?
Certainly not the way a Yanmar SD20 works. And, I can start my engines in gear.
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Old 27-06-2013, 13:51   #9
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRoss76 View Post
From an experience marine engineer and delivery skipper; (and volvo trained transmission engineer)

You have to start the engine. Trust is required here, the yoke (clutch cone) that MARINE ENGINNER refers too has a circumfrential grove that the selector tang engages with. This grove has a minute "wooble" that when the engine is running disengages the clutch cone....
Your engine probably wont stat because of an 'in-gear' protection circuit. Either by-pas the circuit Or
KEEP CLEAR OF BELTS AND PULLIES
Turn on key switch identify the starter solenoid (follow + battery cable) place metallic object (old screw driver) across big terminal + cable attaches to and little cable terminal (there is only one) this will spark bit but you engine will start IN GEAR.
Firmly move the gear lever into neutral - job done.
Hope this helps
In the shifter handle case, there is a small switch that acts as the neutral cutoff to prevent the engine from starting in gear. It is easier to either depress that switch manually, or just pull off the wires and tape them together to bypass it, than to mess around jumping the starter solenoid.

Mark
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Old 27-06-2013, 15:08   #10
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

FYI, there is no neutral cut-off switch in our shifter.
And there does not appear to be any other safety mechanism to keep from starting our motor while in Gear. I have started it in gear in the past. But right now, nevertheless, I can't get it to turn over. The solenoid engages and sends power to the starter, then the whole motor wiggles on the motor mounts as the starter tries to turn over the engine -- but can't. The starter is not able to overcome the resistance/friction of whatever is jammed up.

And yes I have lots of battery power and the batteries are full.

I have also opened the small access port on the top of the transmission -- where the shifter passes into the transmission. I am not able to wiggle or move much of anything inside the transmission through this port. I don't see any broken or worn parts, and I haven't found any metal filings. I think the "clutch" is just stuck and I've not been able to wiggle it free.

I can't open up any more of the transmission at the moment without separating the transmission from the engine.
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Old 27-06-2013, 18:16   #11
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

arthur take out the aft sealing cover above the mount bracket of saildrive and try with a spanner to rotate the shaft through this bolt you will see. this shaft is the one that has the selector and is connected forward with the disk damper plate on the flywheel.try to rotate it and meanwhile to disengage.if you again cannot do anything i am sorry but you must tug your boat out to separate your saildrive.

what kind of prop you have ? fixed or folding?
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Old 27-06-2013, 20:05   #12
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

Thanks for all of your help guys!
After removing the top cover (where the shift lever is) and the aft sealing cover. I was able to wiggle the shaft via the nut under the aft sealing cover, and I also was able to wiggle the gears inside the transmission a bit. this freed up something enough that I was able to start the engine, and then shift out of reverse!!

Thanks again!! Very much appreciated.

-arthur
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:01   #13
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

Thank you, thank you , thank you, Mine was stuck in reverse also after trying to miss a crab pot buoy and very far from home port. I did try to move top shift lever, did not work. Tapped here and there , on lever , on prop. Nothing. My wife found this forum and I removed the rear plate, stuck a wrench on the bolt head and started to move easily in either direction. It went pop and I thought I broke something. But then realized that it was the lever going back into neutral. Been working fine ever since but I sure go into reverse now very gently!!!
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:36   #14
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

beachpete, good job, and hats off to your resourceful wife.

Shows the value of the wealth of old threads here, and the search function.

Curious issue with this sail drive to me. The manual for my v drive describes and allows reversal at full power in an emergency situation, without harm. Of course I tested it, motoring at hull speed and reverse to full stop, just to see how far it took to stop. No harm.

Then once at 2am stuffed it in the slip in a storm with 30knots blowing on the beam, turning into the wind entering slip and jamming reverse to stop before crunching something.

It's unfortunate if aggressive application of power astern is not an option in my opinion.
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:53   #15
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Re: Saildrive Stuck in reverse

I am hoping that the reverse gear does work in an emergency when I do need it. I will probably have new transmissions installed in the 25 year old boat just to make sure next time it is hauled. An extra 46 foot cat haul out is expensive.
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