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Old 23-04-2016, 06:00   #196
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&s...nvCH7iLkFqi3kQ

Big link, but this should give you a copy of Letchers excellant work on self steering with sheet to tiller.

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Old 23-04-2016, 07:09   #197
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

Raymarine has the ST4000 Service Manual available on its website. Raymarine seems to regard the motor as a non-service item (i.e. the Service Manual suggests replacing the motor and not servicing it).

If Raymarine will honour RC's warranty, it might be fun to ask for the sick motor so you could try Atoll's suggestion of cleaning the brushes.
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Old 23-04-2016, 12:16   #198
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

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Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
Raymarine has the ST4000 Service Manual available on its website. Raymarine seems to regard the motor as a non-service item (i.e. the Service Manual suggests replacing the motor and not servicing it).

If Raymarine will honour RC's warranty, it might be fun to ask for the sick motor so you could try Atoll's suggestion of cleaning the brushes.
I can see why they would say that,as the singer motors are very fiddly to take apart,and easy to break the contacts and fixing tabs when taking apart.

the maxon motors are a bit easier to disassemble but still fiddly and easy to bend the contacts when putting it back together.

but when you are stuck in the middle of an ocean with the prospect of hand steering 24/7,creative repairs are called for!
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Old 23-04-2016, 15:48   #199
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

Bon voyage RC

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Old 26-04-2016, 04:52   #200
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

Hi guys,

I've arrived home a few hours ago. I'm exhausted. Had some dramas totally unrelated to the auto pilot. My engine died from contaminated fuel and it's stuffed. For now I'm going to bed and will comment tomorrow.

Cheers RC
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Old 26-04-2016, 04:59   #201
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

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Hi guys,

I've arrived home a few hours ago. I'm exhausted. Had some dramas totally unrelated to the auto pilot. My engine died from contaminated fuel and it's stuffed. For now I'm going to bed and will comment tomorrow.

Cheers RC
well done,the main thing is you made it safely
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Old 26-04-2016, 05:50   #202
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

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well done,the main thing is you made it safely
+1 good to hear you are home, trial by fire for you! Looking forward to hearing about the trip. Well done getting in without an engine, the tamar isn't the easiest river to sail on without an engine.
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Old 27-04-2016, 02:17   #203
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

Well, I left Flinders on Sunday morning at 6:30am after trying to get the St1000 calibrated. It simply would not work on the trim tab and was not powerful enough to operate the rudder. So, with bungy strap in hand I set off in a calm, windless but sunny morning. The bungy strap sort of worked, but if I left the helm any longer than five minutes I'd return to find RC on a course back to Melbourne.

I helmed until 1am Monday morning, by which time I was getting really tired. The engine stalled then and when I checked the filters they were BLACK. I checked the fuel tank depth and I was down to 80 ltrs of my 200 ltrs tank. I'd set off from Queenscliffe with 180 ltrs. I changed the filters and bled it and off we went again. But by 3am I was so incredibly tired and cold that I looked at the chart plotter and realised I was again steering toward Melbourne. It seems I'd nodded off without realising it. I stopped the motor put head to pillow and a few minutes later it was 5am. I'd slept for two hours and according to the plotter had not moved at all. My cabin was lit up as I was only a mile from the Lolla gas platform which was lit up like a Christmas tree. Very pretty sight.

So, at 5am I set off again and as cold as it was I watched the sun rise. The sun rays were a welcome sight and I felt much warmer and more awake because of it. By 7am, 24 hours after leaving i realised I was actually enjoying this. I just wish I could have gone below to pass the time. Boredom was my worse problem.

Around 11am I had to change the filters again, and again around 2pm. I was then down to my second last set of filters. So I changed them and this time I put made the decision to disconnect the lines from my dirty keel tank and connect them into my 20 ltrs portable heater tank which had about ten litres left in it. I was by now about 20 miles out of the Tamar River. I text my uncle and asked him to meet me at the Low Head Pilot Station with an extra 20 litres just in case I needed it. But, as I pulled up the engine stalled and refused to start again.

I went to bed at about midnight and the next morning a local mechanic came to have a look. Very helpful young fella who showed me what he was doing so I could learn what to do if I had not made it back. After some time he concluded that whilst diesel was going to my injector pump, it was not then forwarding fuel to the injectors. Aero start in the inlet got the motor starting quickly. His advice was that more likely water had gone through the line and stuffed the pump.

Given a lot of problems I've had with this Volvo Penta 2003T, I've concluded its time to repower rather than spend an approx $5000 to do everything that's needed and then still have something break when out to sea.

Tuesday afternoon a friend arrived and he towed me up the river to Beauty Point.

So, that's my trip. I enjoyed most of it. Would have been so much better if I had a reliable auto pilot.

However, when I left Queenscliffe with my St4000 initially working, I had a fright in the 20+ winds. I couldn't get the main up because of the lazy jacks, and whilst trying one large wave after another knocked me over (? 45 degrees?). I regretted being on my own at that time. The two meter seas were really uncomfortable.
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Old 29-04-2016, 17:43   #204
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

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As suggested by Snowpetrel, here is a video of the version I suggest would be easier to build and install, while taking advantage of any A.I. programmed into the autopilot system.

My thanks to my son Ben for being the extra pair of hands needed for the demo. He got a bit of a buzz out of it, as being a trainee pilot and aeronautical engineer, he liked the idea of playing around with trim tab systems, very much a part of aviation engineering.

I have squashed the file down to 6MB, wmv format, apologies to those on limited bandwidth.

Matt
Matt, now I'm grounded for the winter (at least) I'm going to take the opportunity to conclude my AP problems. Long term, if I ever do any serious long term cruising I'll most likely follow Ann's suggestion with adding a windvane. But for now I would prefer to get this electric AP sorted which then enables me to motor cruise.

Your reasonably confident that what you have done in the Lego video would rectify my snaking/hunting problems with the current set up?

I don't think it would be too hard for me to make, and I have plenty of time to make those alterations. Just won't be able to test it until I have an engine going
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Old 01-05-2016, 00:03   #205
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

Pm sent.


Sent from my iPhone so apologies for weird autocorrect typos.
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Old 01-05-2016, 00:35   #206
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

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Pm sent.
Sent from my iPhone so apologies for weird autocorrect typos.
I can't seem to send an attachment to you Matt in a PM.

Can you look at this sketch.

firstly, Where do you propose the axis for the new trim tab tiller go?

Secondly, how long should the handle off the trim tab should be? Does this even matter?
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:21   #207
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

One issue I've just thought of with this (and most similar setups) is that if for some reason the main rudder turns the wrong way, ie backing or low speed in a seaway. The trim tab might hang up and put alot of stress on the system.

To fix this the slotted trim tab tiller part needs to be long enough, and some rudder stops fitted.

With a windvane its not such an issue, it will just push the windvane backwards against the wind, but a fixed tillerpilot could put big loads on stuff.
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:25   #208
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

Out of curiosity RC, how did the old system neutral system actually work out after you got the settings adjusted. Sounds like it must have worked to some extent, though no doubt a system with some feedback should not oversteer as much as the neutral system.

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Old 01-05-2016, 04:26   #209
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

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One issue I've just thought of with this (and most similar setups) is that if for some reason the main rudder turns the wrong way, ie backing or low speed in a seaway. The trim tab might hang up and put alot of stress on the system.

To fix this the slotted trim tab tiller part needs to be long enough, and some rudder stops fitted.

With a windvane its not such an issue, it will just push the windvane backwards against the wind, but a fixed tillerpilot could put big loads on stuff.
Well, the auto pilot wouldn't be engaged during reversing.

I think the hanging up and putting stress on the system is what happened with the st4000 when I left the RiP.
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:30   #210
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Re: Raymarine St4000 with Trim Tab Problem

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Out of curiosity RC, how did the old system neutral system actually work out after you got the settings adjusted. Sounds like it must have worked to some extent, though no doubt a system with some feedback should not oversteer as much as the neutral system.

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It snaked a lot. But got us to Melbourne. And when you look at the chart plotter it was an overall pretty straight course. But, once I hit 2m seas, 20knotts wind, with just a furler up, then it lost it.

And the snaking is too much. Even coming over with the first 12 hours where we had a pleasant 12 knotts of wind, we were unable to head straight to course because the snaking meant that in order to keep the sails full, we had to bare off quite a bit.
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