Hydraulic Steering

[Boko~maru]

I just replaced 20 year old Hoses in my Hydraulic steering system with copper as recommended by Teleflex-morse (Capiliano). Should I have Double flared the connections? I did Single flares and am having problems with leaks & line separation.

[delmarrey]

A single flare is fine. Steering systems are basicly low pressure.
Are you using tube flares (45 degree) or JIC (37 degree)????
Are the fittings new???
Are they sleeved or just nut sealed??? Sleeved is better, it doesn't twist the tube.

Some times if it's flared too hard there will be a hairline crack at the base of the angle. Rolling flare tools are the best. They do an even job and the die's are better made with a radius in the corners.
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http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCt...MMainWidth=894

[GordMay]

How to Keep Hydraulic Couplings Leak-Free ~ By Richard Ries
”Match replacement fittings to ports on the machine and the hose used; then install assemblies properly to dry up costly drips ...”
Goto:
How to Keep Hydraulic Couplings Leak-Free - 3/1/2004 - Construction Equipment

See also Gates Safe Hydraulics Pocket Guide:
http://www.gates.com/europe/file_dis...5FPOCKET%2Epdf

And:
Gates Safe Hydraulics Programme Europe

See also:
Hydraulic fitting selection the key to leak-free hydraulic plumbing

[Boko~maru]

I used 45 degree flares with just flare nuts no sooner did I get out of the harbor and something let go. Right now, I'm letting the old body recoupe before I climb back into the Lazarette (AKA:coffin) to see what let go, but I got to figure it was one of the Flares

[cat man do]

I see a few on here saying Hydraulic steering is expensive.

I got my stuff not that long ago, and while I still need a few more bit's, this bundle of joy cost $800, so I thought that was pretty reasonable.

My alternative for a flybridge driven cat would have cost a fair bit more.

Dave

[Alan Wheeler]

Tiller is going to be the cheapest of course. But from then on, hydraulic tends to be the next cheapest. However, it does depend on installation. As in, are you paying fro it to be installed or is it DIY. It does depend on complexity. A simple install can use a flexi nylon tubing and comes all pre-made to length. You just have to tighten the fittings. Auto-pilots are very simple to fit in line at any time.
Mechancical stearing is expensive. Although I have seen many DIY systems using old vehicle stearing units etc. But they usually send a chill down my spind when I see them. They tend to be rather on the ruff side.

[Steve Pope]

Stanley marine in Whangarei had 2 or 3 sets of Craven hydraulic units available a couple of weeks ago. they are a ram to ram type and are very robust and I think they can be linked into a auto pilot.
Steve.

[delmarrey]

The two lower gauges is how I watch for feedback in weather helm and adjust to lower it as much as possible.

[pjkwa5]

Originally Posted by Rick

Hydraulic steering systems can be installed with a bypass to the check valves if you want both features. At a minimum I recommend using a good helm pump with integral check valves (usually the balls in the check valves can be removed later if you desire to have continuous feedback) and a bypass valve. The bypass valve is handy when you are cleaning the bottom and want to move the rudder whilst in the water.

It is a myth that there is no feedback with the checkvalves installed. Think about it. The force required to move the rudder is a function of the number of turns of the wheel to get lock-to-lock of the rudder, the radius of the wheel, and the force you apply to the radius of the wheel with your arm. It is impossible to turn the rudder without feeling the force required. The more water force against the rudder the more power it takes either by an autopilot or your body to quickly move that rudder, hence you HAVE feedback.

I used to have the check valve bypass on another boat. I did not use it because it was so much easier to turn the wheel to trim the boat heading, take my hand off the wheel and not have the boat turn due to any residual weather or lee helm or a turbulence in the water against the rudder. This is a nice feature that most sailboaters are afraid of because of this myth that one cannot have feedback with hydraulics per se, or check valves in particular. Such people probably have not had much experience with a good hydraulic installation. Anyway, I converted my present boat to hydraulic steering to eliminate the backlash or give that cable steering systems all have (if you attempt to remove the backlash then you wind up with a very stiff friction-full wheel response) and to provide a platform amenable to installing a real autopiliot.

Make sure that you plan carefully the geometry of the hydraulic ram, the ram "tiller" arm, and the ram size. The ram attachment to the hull must be VERY robust to be reliable. If you use the new Teleflex prefabricated hydraulic lines and their hydraulic fittings you will have the best chance of having zero leaks due to their design using "O" rings in addition to the normal sealing features of the usual fittings. In addition, the lines are much easier to install without kinking than copper tubing.

Do not be afraid of mixing brands of hydraulic gear: you might opt for a variable ratio helm pump by Kobelt, a hydraulic expansion tank by Hynautics, hydraulic ram by Capilano or Hynautics (or Kobelt), tubing by Teleflex and autopilot by Furuno, for example.

Start by picking a ram that is strong enough, and more, for your rudder. That establishes the ram volume (you will use only a balanced cylinder). That volume then establishes the helm pump volume. Calculate that you need to have a turns ratio between 3 to one and 5 to one (max for a sailboat in my opinion) and, therefore, a 13 cubic inch displacement ram requires a helm pump displacement of 13/3 cubic inches per turn for a 3 to one turns ratio which equals 4.33 cubic inches. An adjustable helm pump that has 2.6 to 4.33 inches per turn (or a range wider than this) will give you the ability to set between 3 and 5 turns lock to lock. Similarly, a calculation will establish the autopilot pump size and speed. Figure that for offshore work steering downwind in a heavy following sea that sufficient power is needed to turn lock-to-lock in about 7 seconds, depending upon your boat response to the rudder angle.

Keep in mind that most autopilot recommendations are made for vessels in relatively tame conditions and, therefore, are too slow for serious offshore work under all conditions. Note that when conditions are bad that is when you DON'T want to have to steer. You will get tired fast and will probably be busy doing other things.

Hi I saw this post and I just purchased a C & C 39 Landfall and was hoping to find another owner who might be able to share their knowledge. My email is pjkwa5@msn.com my current issue involve the steering below the quadrant there is a stainless pin that rides on a deron ring and it keeps slipping and I have to tap it back in was hoping you mind be able to offer guidance.

[totalrefitdan]

hi I was wondering if you could shed some light on my problem you seem very knowledgeable. hi I have a Canada metals octopus hydraulic ram and I have been having issues with it.for a start when I looked down below the bolt eye where it attaches to the steering quadrant seems very loose and there is allot of play in it left to right is this wear or is there a bearing that has failed .when a big wave hits the rudder the ram arm moves back and forwards a few inches.when I'm sailing I turn the wheel and once I reach a certain point it seems to not react and then it comes back its very worrying. can I service it.
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.'
thanks

[pjkwa5]

Hi, not sure if I understand all your circumstances, but here goes.

The steering RAM is a power system that works with your autopilot. What I think I am hearing is movement in your rudder post. Have someone monitor your rudder post while you are underway and see if they can observe the top of the post moving. If that the case you will need to create a new rudder bearing or bushing.

Rudder Bushing Repair Details - Pearson 26

I know when I did mine I found a better site but cannot find it right now. I seem to remember it was a "This old boat" type of site.