Excessive Wear on SD40 Yanmar Cone Clutch

[alanglo]

ARWEN,
Where in Turkey are you?
My boat is in Gocek and we have had this job done regularly in Gocek and Marmaris over the last 7 years.
Can e-mail you knowledgeable contacts if you wish.
My agent in Gocek is Turkish and fluent in English and German if you need help.
Regards
Alan Glover,

[arwen]

Thanks for that Alan
We are currently in Kusidasi - we were in Marmaris a week ago but had only just started sailing again and had no issues until we got to Bodrum after a long motor sail. We have had the Yanmar engineer from the yard here come to the boat he has poor English but has intimated we need to lift the boat out! I know from this forum that this is not the case and therefore we are not filled with confidence for him to do the work! Do you know anywhere between here and Istanbul (our destination for June) where there is a reliable English speaking Yanmar Engineer who can help us?
When you had your work done did they have to move the engine forward? Have you had a new cone unit fitted or just re-lapped the cones or both?
Cheers
Rob Black
Arwen

[arwen]

Hi again Alan
Can you send me the details of your engineer in Marmaris who has done this work for you as it may be cheaper for us to pay for him to drive up here and do the work or at least supervise the yard engineer. Thanks again for your input - hope to hear from you really soon.
Rob Black

[carter 39]

Hi Arwen,

The Engineer who did my cones last season is from a company called MARLIN, they are the Yanmar people in Marmaris , his Name is Ismail and his mobile phone is 05337775293. I also beleive there is a Yanmar outfit near Kusadasi in Turgutries Marina. Good luck.

Marwan

[bill good]

Been looking at drive cone problems in a smaller KM2 box & will try synthetic oil as the drive cone is very like syncro in a car gear box & it helps in that application. (Just hand lapped the one in my box Yanmar dealer wanted near $800.00 aus the cost in USA $300.00!!) Anyone else tried the synthetic oil for this drive cone problem?

Regards Bill

[RobertR]

Hi Cruisers. We have a Prout 45' Sailing Cat with two Yanmar 40's and SD50 Saildrives. Engine hours on both sides are fairly balanced at 1,100 hrs. We have had intermittent problems with the Starboard side not actually engaging in forward or reverse on demand, which was very concerning when wew brought her through the Panama Cannal East-bound and were located in the center of the Locks with a Ship in front and three yachts behind us. We did find improved performance for another 200 hours when we flushed and replaced the old Oil with new Oil as specified by Yanmar. Now that we have the Boat here in Annapolis, MD, the Starboard side has thrown in the towel for good. We are also using 3-bladed folding Max-props. Qouted cost to replace the Cones, Needles, Bearing, and Labor (estimated at 16-20 hrs - which seems very high from what I have researched!) is going to cost us between $3,500-4,500 US. The breakdown was for about $1,500 for parts and $2,500-3,000 for Labor at $105/hr. The work has already begun, but because they found the Bearing was damaged after the work started, the new part just arrived today. We would love to hear any feedback and suggestions others can provide. Anyone have an example of what they paid for the same work and hours required?

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by RobertR

Hi Cruisers. We have a Prout 45' Sailing Cat with two Yanmar 40's and SD50 Saildrives. Engine hours on both sides are fairly balanced at 1,100 hrs. We have had intermittent problems with the Starboard side not actually engaging in forward or reverse on demand, which was very concerning when wew brought her through the Panama Cannal East-bound and were located in the center of the Locks with a Ship in front and three yachts behind us. We did find improved performance for another 200 hours when we flushed and replaced the old Oil with new Oil as specified by Yanmar. Now that we have the Boat here in Annapolis, MD, the Starboard side has thrown in the towel for good. We are also using 3-bladed folding Max-props. Qouted cost to replace the Cones, Needles, Bearing, and Labor (estimated at 16-20 hrs - which seems very high from what I have researched!) is going to cost us between $3,500-4,500 US. The breakdown was for about $1,500 for parts and $2,500-3,000 for Labor at $105/hr. The work has already begun, but because they found the Bearing was damaged after the work started, the new part just arrived today. We would love to hear any feedback and suggestions others can provide. Anyone have an example of what they paid for the same work and hours required?

Ouch! What's a new sail drive cost?

I have SD20s and was quoted <$2k by the Yanmar dist. at a boat show for a whole new drive (plus labor, of course).

[RobertR]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Ouch! What's a new sail drive cost?

I have SD20s and was quoted <$2k by the Yanmar dist. at a boat show for a whole new drive (plus labor, of course).

That is what I was considering too. Then they told me about $5,000 for the drive, ~$1,000 to pull-it and have it on the Hard for a few days, blocked, etc., plus Labor of about 2-3 days a$2,500-3,500, so total of $8,500-9,000. Sounded like the Cone replacement was the better choice at this stage. But I am still very interested to hear more since I have read other posts state similar work for a total of parts and labor running around $1,500-$2,500. My quote seems ridiculously high, so I am trying to get a sanity check.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by RobertR

That is what I was considering too. Then they told me about $5,000 for the drive, ~$1,000 to pull-it and have it on the Hard for a few days, blocked, etc., plus Labor of about 2-3 days a$2,500-3,500, so total of $8,500-9,000. Sounded like the Cone replacement was the better choice at this stage. But I am still very interested to hear more since I have read other posts state similar work for a total of parts and labor running around $1,500-$2,500. My quote seems ridiculously high, so I am trying to get a sanity check.

It sounds like they're doing pretty much a whole top end overhaul, not just putting in a new cone clutch. That usually does not involve needle bearing and other bearings. What I would ask is what caused the problem. Did you get water in the oil or use some off brand oil that treated you badly. What I would worry about is that the lower unit is full of needle bearings and bearings similar to thse found in the top end. If the uppers are gone what is the condition of the lowers? Changing the lowers does require a haul out. I once had one of my SD40's removed, fixed and reinstalled for $2600 and that included new hull diaphrams, a pilot shaft and the haul out. It took an hour to take it out and about 2.5 hours to put it in. I can't imagine why it would take 3 days labor to swap out an old one for a new one. I would be interested in knowing the brand of oil you were using just to make sure I avoid it, feel free to PM me on that.

[claire]

Normally, all that is required is lapping the cone: no new part is needed for that, and a good mechanic will do the job in less than 4 hours. The yanmar rep in Marmaris (Turkey) has a flat fee of 250 euros per saildrive for the operation.
We did it once ourselves: for a first time, checking written instructions at each step, it took the 2 of us a couple hours to take apart and one day to lap and put back together. We wasted most time trying to unscrew M16, the big nut that screws in reverse after delicately pushing the metal lap that blocks it and that we had missed.

[RobertR]

I just had the Cone and Needles replaced on my Yanmar SD50 Saildrive. Current invoice is for $4,200 for work done in Annapolis, MD. I plan on having a discussion with the Vendor about how high this cost appears to be given what I have researched see that other owners have paid between $1,200 - $2,500 for the same service. No, they did not pull the Boat. It was replaced in the water at her slip. After my discussion, I plan to scan and post my invoice and let the line item details speak for themselves. Is that okay to do? I will only do so if it is okay within the Terms and Conditions of this Forum...

[DreamSeeker]

Would love to see that as I am in cone clutch hell myself right now!

[fritz-the-cat]

For this money You get here in Panama a new SD 50- why do You bother to repair it? When my SD50-4T has 2000 hours, I throu it over board and get a new one for US$ 3.500.- and replaice it myself- 5 hours to get the old one out and the new one in, and forget repais....have a new item....that I would not have installed, if I would have known about the weak construction and the poor warrenty conditions of Yanmar. My last SD50-4T lasted only 6 month and the mainshaft broke as the lower gears got stuck- the Yanmar dealer TESA at Panama refuses to provide the global Yanmar Garantee.......

[astalavistavela]

Hallo to everyone who suffer with Sd cone clutch
I did what Bamboosail suggested to do and so far is still ok!

In sequence:
1) I've pushed the the 4 nuts forward
2) I've removed the block containing the clutch assembly
3) opening of the assembly (was the most difficoult due to the unscrew of M16 nut on the top)
4) cleaning up of the grooves both sides of the cone (with a metal brush)
5)change of the M16 nut (was the only unpredictable expence 30€)
6) change of the oil with the Quicksilver (Ididn't know the previous one)

Considerations: I did not touch the two iron bells, I was committed only to brush the grooves on the cone clutch that were full of black burned oil, thus in my opinion was the reason of the slippery;
given that the oil film has nowhere to escape when the gear is put on.
After all, when the slippery starts , the temperature rises as well, producing more residual burned oil into the grooves.
Furthermore as the higher part of the Sd probably,during normal operation contains an air bubble that causes the oil temperature rise right in the upper portion of the assembly, where the clutch lies
if Any of you needs, pictures of the job, just let me know
Hope I made myself understood ! bye bye

[mac4kat]

Originally Posted by astalavistavela

Hallo to everyone who suffer with Sd cone clutch
I did what Bamboosail suggested to do and so far is still ok!

In sequence:
1) I've pushed the the 4 nuts forward
2) I've removed the block containing the clutch assembly
3) opening of the assembly (was the most difficoult due to the unscrew of M16 nut on the top)
4) cleaning up of the grooves both sides of the cone (with a metal brush)
5)change of the M16 nut (was the only unpredictable expence 30€)
6) change of the oil with the Quicksilver (Ididn't know the previous one)

Considerations: I did not touch the two iron bells, I was committed only to brush the grooves on the cone clutch that were full of black burned oil, thus in my opinion was the reason of the slippery;
given that the oil film has nowhere to escape when the gear is put on.
After all, when the slippery starts , the temperature rises as well, producing more residual burned oil into the grooves.
Furthermore as the higher part of the Sd probably,during normal operation contains an air bubble that causes the oil temperature rise right in the upper portion of the assembly, where the clutch lies
if Any of you needs, pictures of the job, just let me know
Hope I made myself understood ! bye bye

Thank you for the Infos. I will clean my clutch on my starboard Sd50. Can you please send me the pictures or a link to them? How was the result? No sliding anymore?Did you need to lift the engine to move it forward?


Thank you for your reply.


Olivier mail@inspirity.net