Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-05-2013, 21:00   #31
Registered User
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
I think I would be checking your motor mounts to see if the motor is moving when under power. It sounds like your bellows was loosing it's pressure. Unless this is a power boat with lots and lots of thrust.
No motor mounting issues.. and it leaked often while under sail.. the bellows had gone sour and any type of presure from under the boat caused it to leak.. i didnt like the idea of being à couple hundred miles offshore when it decided to give up... Like i said, i'll go back to the old style and carry à little extra packing with me.. i know i can repare the old style anywhere i go...
Not saying the dripless is wrong, just wrong for my likes........
Randyonr3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2013, 22:24   #32
Registered User
 
eyschulman's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River & Marshal Catboat
Posts: 639
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Some bellows go bad fast due to fuel oil or other chemical contamination. Also on high power motor craft with high rpm the cooling water is pumped in from motor and at high rpm the pressure may overload the bellows. All in all drip-less is a over complication and potential danger popular as a lazy man's gadget. Boating seems to be going more and more in the push button direction. I am a CGAUX VSC examiner and I find people who own boats with drip-less systems who don't have a clue how they work or how to maintain. Some don't even know they are on the boat or how long they have been there without maintenance. Considering the implications if and when the unit fails not good. If a standard shaft gland starts to fail you get a leak if a drip less lets go you get a new boat if you survive the incident. As these units start to age and get into the 20 year old range I think we will see more of this problem.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2013, 23:03   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,944
Images: 7
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Some bellows go bad fast due to fuel oil or other chemical contamination. Also on high power motor craft with high rpm the cooling water is pumped in from motor and at high rpm the pressure may overload the bellows. All in all drip-less is a over complication and potential danger popular as a lazy man's gadget. Boating seems to be going more and more in the push button direction. I am a CGAUX VSC examiner and I find people who own boats with drip-less systems who don't have a clue how they work or how to maintain. Some don't even know they are on the boat or how long they have been there without maintenance. Considering the implications if and when the unit fails not good. If a standard shaft gland starts to fail you get a leak if a drip less lets go you get a new boat if you survive the incident. As these units start to age and get into the 20 year old range I think we will see more of this problem.

I don't see why most of your arguments (except cooling) don't also apply to stuffing boxes. Melt your stuffing box hose with chemicals and you're in the same boat. Improper installation of a PSS in a high power boat is a non-starter, that's not the fault of the PSS. You say it's a lazy man's gadget, then say it needs maintenance. Over-complicated? It's a bellows, carbon ring and a steel donut. I didn't know how to properly maintain a stuffing box any more than I knew how to maintain a PSS when I first got on a boat with one. I learned, both. Those that won't learn, won't learn either system. Why would they know how long the stuffing box hose was on a new to them boat any better than a PSS bellows?

I actually see that a stuffing box with the new packing material is a good solution. My boat came with a PSS, it works, it isn't getting tossed. I have a plan for if the bellows breaks, just as I would have a plan for if the stuffing box hose were to break.

Give the Coasties a downcheck:
http://www.shaftseal.com/system/atta...__low_res_.pdf
Governments and agencies that have installed the PSS Shaft Seal include:
United States: Navy, Coast Guard, Corps of Engineers
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2013, 23:43   #34
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
I actually see that a stuffing box with the new packing material is a good solution.
Me too, but then I'm not a fanatic about a dry bilge. My last boat had a PSS dripless system, but the "new" boat uses the "new" packing material. In the long run, I'm happier with it.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 00:00   #35
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in Northern California working on the Ranch
Boat: Pearson 365 Sloop and 9' Fatty Knees.
Posts: 10,466
Images: 5
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

I've been back in the water now for a month. One of the refits was removing the drip-less and installing a regular stuffing with "the new packing stuff"...Teflon, I think. You have to be carefull that you get the box on straight and there is no side loading of the shaft. This happened on mine. Because the rubber hose was slightly larger than my metric shaft log, I had to use those t-bolt clamps to get them tight enough. When I did tighten it up, it biased the shaft over. When I ran it in gear, the bronze nuts felt slightly warm to the touch after 5 minutes. So in the water, I loosened everything up and re tightened. Runs cool now...I'm happy and sleep at night.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 04:29   #36
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

I presume Dockhead that they are PSS seals, could be Halyard etc

dave
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 12:33   #37
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I presume Dockhead that they are PSS seals, could be Halyard etc

dave
I think it is a PSS, although my water lift mufflers are Halyard (and in fact, my actual boat is the photo model for the Halyard water lift system).
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 12:35   #38
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
. . . I am a CGAUX VSC examiner and I find people who own boats with drip-less systems who don't have a clue how they work or how to maintain. . .
Yep, guilty as charged . . .
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 14:13   #39
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
I have a ManeCraft dripless that i love. It had 7 years wear when we bought the boat and we added 5 years and 8,000 miles/ 500+ engine hours.

Our system has two wear modalities:

1. The copper to copper strip between the shaft bellow and the wngine bellows

2. The rubber decaying due to age

Neither of these was an issue and the system had 30,000 miles on it when we bought the boat.

We changed it in the water and it was only two jubilee clips (hose clamps) and lossening and easing the shaft back a bit...
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2013, 15:40   #40
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mystic
Boat: St. Francis 44 mkII
Posts: 361
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

and the same applies to boats with stuffing boxes..

at the end of the day there are folks who bother to learn and know about their boats and then there are those who dont.... it has nothing to do with a dripless/stuffing box discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
I find people who own boats with drip-less systems who don't have a clue how they work or how to maintain. .
Mystic38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:36   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: west coast of Thailand
Boat: Mason 44
Posts: 226
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Mine came with PYI dripless installed in 2003.

Last Oct, Surveyor said the unit is dripping some water. The ss collar can come loose. PYI now sells an optional ss clamp to prevent the ss collar from moving - just in case the set screws come loose.

Alternatively, a cheaper method I read is to use a hose clamp after ss collar - another project for this weekend.

Got myself a new bellow, carbon and ss collar set ready for haul out next month on the slipway at the yacht club.

Eric
ericoh88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:50   #42
Registered User
 
eyschulman's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River & Marshal Catboat
Posts: 639
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

For those who think a drip less bellows is the same as rubber hose on a standard box I suggest you take a look at both items side by side.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:04   #43
Registered User
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
Images: 122
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

The only advantage I have found a stuffing box has over a dripless seal is that it can take more abuse. If one has a smooth running drive train then a thick bellows/hose is not necessary. The water pressure at the depth of most stern tubes is about 15 psi hardly enough to pop a ballon.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:24   #44
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,151
Re: Dripless Shaft Seal Inspection & Maintenance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
The only advantage I have found a stuffing box has over a dripless seal is that it can take more abuse. If one has a smooth running drive train then a thick bellows/hose is not necessary. The water pressure at the depth of most stern tubes is about 15 psi hardly enough to pop a ballon.
15 psi??? Surely you jest...

Depending on the boat, one to two psi is more like it.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:28   #45
Registered User
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post

15 psi??? Surely you jest...

Depending on the boat, one to two psi is more like it.

Jim

Thank you Jim!!

15 psi is 10M or 33' down!!!!
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
inspection, maintenance, paracelle

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.