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Old 04-07-2015, 03:27   #76
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

That's why I installed a folding propeller.
Truth, is costs quite a bit of money but saves erosion seal adds up to half a knot sails and shorten the sailing time of great distance.
Does not affect engine performance sailing.
Do not hurt the ability to maneuver the boat.
No unnecessary noise that comes next gear pass-through back rooms.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:47   #77
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

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Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
Wow, a whole bunch of bad information here. The info regarding the Hurth gear box is correct for most installations. I don't care what MIT says, a free-wheeling prop creates more drag than a stopped one in both boats and airplanes. I have 40 years experience in both. Add a prop shaft electric generator and you have even more drag. Your wind turbine? Same thing, wind-milling and producing electricity equals max drag, wind-milling and producing no electricity equals less drag. Prop tethered produces the least amount of drag. There is no free lunch. You have to make a decision how much energy you want to extract from the wind to produce electricity and drive the boat. What you get form one you extract from the other. If you are fully charged up tether the wind turbine. Does anyone really think 150 amp (at full capacity) alternator creates the same load on the engine as an 80 amp one? If you do you probably think like an MIT guy. Solar, it doesn't slow your boat down, make noise, hit you in the head or wear out your transmission. You do have to clean the bird crap off it though.
Those stupid engineers, spouting off about engineering stuff.

The new bad thread list.

1. Guns on board?
2. What kind of anchor?
3. Prop locked or free spinning?
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Old 04-07-2015, 15:42   #78
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

1st off I am short on typing skills and patience sorry, basically there are three types of transmission engagements
1 is the dog type which basically jams 2 gears together this is what is in small outboards
2 the hydraulic type that has a pump driven by the engine when running, it pumps pressure to a clutches which engages the prop shaft ,if the engine is not running, no pump no pressure no engagement it freewheels no mater the position of the shift lever
3 for the lack of a better word I will call it a mechanical wedge type which is the most common,simple, cheaper type
when the shift hub is moved the friction material on it contacts the gear, the resistance wedges the hub with more pressure against the gear, more resistance more pressure, less slippage, when the prop shaft/gear becomes the driving as opposed to driven then the wedge effect is reduced this causes slippage at the friction clutch due to the lack of pressure
when the boat is moving forward and shift lever is in reverse the wedging effect occurs BUT is it enough to stop all movement at the friction clutch?????
maybe a big 4 blade creates enough torque ? and a 2 blade will not? too many variables
hope this makes sense!
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Old 04-07-2015, 16:26   #79
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

my manufacturer says leave in neutral. no lock. it must lube while in neutral, as my prop rotates very very slowly when trans is in neutral.
ok i dont argue with manufacturers and designers.
thankyou.
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Old 04-07-2015, 17:20   #80
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. I doubt everybody wants to hear about all the things you are wrong about. This is a boat forum.
Interesting post but I unsure exactly what insights you are trying share with us.

In reverse order of you statements:

I'm sure everyone (including me) knows it is a boating forum, it's name sort of gives it away. Perhaps the comment is directed only at me, if so, even then one would assume that after 7 years on board and >5,000 posts, I might know this.

Presumably you are using "all the things you are wrong about" in the sense of being "factually incorrect" rather than say illegal or immoral etc. Again, if so, I would challenge you to actually state what comments I have made in this thread that are factually incorrect. Then provide some substantive evidence to is support your claim. I have say though, I will be very surprised if you can creditably dispute the information I have provided.

In most of these "locked or free prop drag" type threads, some start comparing the drag characteristics of airplane props and assume they are analogous. In this thread I have showed some factual information to show they are not. At least one poster then posted a follow up question which I answered. So allow me to assume that there are really some who are interested. The ones that are not, well they can just jump ahead to the next interesting post.

However Guy, let me repeat, I am most sure the facts I have posted are indeed facts but in the off chance that I am wrong, I would be very happy to be corrected. This way, we could all learn something new today.
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Old 04-07-2015, 17:37   #81
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. I doubt everybody wants to hear about all the things you are wrong about. This is a boat forum.
Guy, that post is not only incorrect, it is offensive. IMO you owe Wotname a personal apology.

FYI, Wottie is professionally involved in aircraft maintenance and is way more knowledgeable about such subjects than most CF members. We are fortunate to have some correspondents who actually know something about these subjects.

Jim
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Old 04-07-2015, 17:49   #82
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

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Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
Those stupid engineers, spouting off about engineering stuff.

The new bad thread list.

1. Guns on board?
2. What kind of anchor?
3. Prop locked or free spinning?
4. EPIRB or Satellite Push Button Thingy?
5. SSB or Sat Phone?
6. One, two or three hulls?
Fixed it for you...
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Old 04-07-2015, 19:01   #83
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

You missed one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
The new bad thread list.

1. Guns on board?
2. What kind of anchor?
3. Prop locked or free spinning?
4. EPIRB or Satellite Push Button Thingy?
5. SSB or Sat Phone?
6. One, two or three hulls?

7. Stand On or obey The Rule of Tonnage?
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Old 04-07-2015, 20:11   #84
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

In forward, with the engine running.
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Old 05-07-2015, 06:41   #85
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
Fixed it for you...
There is no "rule of tonnage."
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Old 05-07-2015, 07:44   #86
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

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There is no "rule of tonnage."

It's one of those unwritten life lessons


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Old 05-07-2015, 08:10   #87
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
In forward, with the engine running.
Now here is a guy who knows how to keep the forum in context!

I just recently encountered this issue. Was out for a day sail and left the dink at the dock...good breeze ( 15-17 kts ) (what it takes to move an Ingrid)...danged if I didn't start getting noise out of the gearbox with neutral selected when the boat speed got up to 7kts or so. It's a Yanmar 4jh2te with a K gearbox so I know it's supposed to be left in nuetral but the noise was troubling. I put it in reverse to stop the racket. I have decided to store the dink as opposed to towing it so the issue will be encountered more often. I can't use a shaft brake cause only a tiny person can even get to my shaft log. I guess the only solution is a folding prop. Been wanting one anyway. It is hard to believe that the rattling in the gearbox is better than locking it up but like Zhag says I won't argue with the manufacturer.
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Old 05-07-2015, 08:38   #88
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
It's one of those unwritten life lessons


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Like going into a bar and starting a fight with someone you don't know or buying a used car from the side of the road where the office is a metal storage shed!
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Old 05-07-2015, 16:33   #89
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

So I was out sailing this weekend, with the trans in neutral, and the shaft spinning and spinning. And I finally just put it in reverse. Wow. Silence. I had no idea how much that spinning shaft was bugging me. I hope it does no damage, but I think I'll be keeping it in reverse while sailing from now on. Just have to remember to put it back into neutral before starting.

Another good piece of advice from CF!
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Old 05-07-2015, 21:18   #90
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Re: Do you sail with your transmission in gear?

I never knew my shaft was spinning on Ola under sail until I looked one day just to see if it was spinning. It was. And it had a big wobble in it. Maybe I looked because I heard a vibration or whir. So my Yanmar was out of alignment since I had pulled engine and reinstalled. What are the odds that you only sense vibration when engine is not perfectly aligned? After I realigned I never know if shaft is spinning unless I look.
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