Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 4.67 average. Display Modes
Old 08-01-2013, 08:19   #376
Registered User
 
neelie's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On the boat
Boat: Valiant 50
Posts: 514
Re: Autoprop ?

Thanks for the great review, Dockhead

Ecowind?? First I've even heard of this one and it promises the same performance increases as the Autoprop delivers.

I've just tried searching for reviews and opinions on the Ecowind, despite being on the market for 2 years now, there seems to be only one or two who have commented on it with first hand experience. Hey ho.. more Googling required.
__________________

__________________
The light at the end of the tunnel are no longer the headlights of the oncoming train......yippee
neelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2013, 07:38   #377
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,735
Re: Autoprop ?

By the way:

One thing very much worth doing for all propellers which have moving parts, is to send them back to the manufacturer for inspection on a regular basis.

I sent mine to Brunton's a few weeks ago. They took it apart, cleaned it, replaced all the bearings and seals, checked everything for wear, recut the blades where there were nicks, then rebalanced the whole thing. Fitted a new anode. All this for 290 pounds, or less than $500. So now it's good as new again and I don't need to worry about the bearings etc.

My father has a Brunton prop (the old kind with the water lubricated bearings) and he doesn't bother. It's been in the water continuously for 15 years and he never does anything but change the anodes sporadically (by diving; he almost never hauls his boat). Has worked perfectly for 15 years and thousands of hours.

But a mission-critical part like this, which is also a safety-critical part, with moving and wearing components, should be regularly serviced IMHO.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2013, 07:41   #378
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,735
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neelie View Post
Thanks for the great review, Dockhead

Ecowind?? First I've even heard of this one and it promises the same performance increases as the Autoprop delivers.

I've just tried searching for reviews and opinions on the Ecowind, despite being on the market for 2 years now, there seems to be only one or two who have commented on it with first hand experience. Hey ho.. more Googling required.
The Ecowind looks very cool. I'm also looking forward to hearing more about people's real experiences, but I've never known anyone who fitted one.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2013, 08:52   #379
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,029
Re: Autoprop ?

Mission-critical? Well, that's only the auxiliary engine, so perhaps not.

But if it were mission critical and you planned to send it home for re-education every year, you do have a spare prop of some kind aboard, yes?
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 10:19   #380
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,321
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
All this for 290 pounds, or less than $500.
Lucky you. Now add the freight from and to the other side of the world? With all the good words from you, they must have given you a special price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
My father has a Brunton prop (the old kind with the water lubricated bearings) and he doesn't bother. It's been in the water continuously for 15 years and he never does anything but change the anodes sporadically (by diving; he almost never hauls his boat). Has worked perfectly for 15 years and thousands of hours.
Could you elaborate on the difference between the old kind and the new kind? It makes you wonder why a new kind is necessary if the old one is that reliable?
__________________
chala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 10:28   #381
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Re: Autoprop ?

My autoprops are 6 years old.
They have a central rubber bush to absorb shock loading. The life span is aproximatly 6 years. The hub design has now been changed to allow a different design of rubber bush. The old bush can fail and leave you with no drive. When the new design fails it still leaves you with partial drive as the rubber tends to lock up inside the hub. The new rubber bearing are a series of pencilled shaped rubber sections placed length ways. You can update your hubs and bearings but it is not cheap.

And I have two of them!
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 12:13   #382
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,321
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
My autoprops are 6 years old.
They have a central rubber bush to absorb shock loading.

And I have two of them!
You must have a saildrive. There are no rubber bushes on a H5.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	H5Aprop.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	406.6 KB
ID:	53990  
__________________
chala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 12:55   #383
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chala View Post
You must have a saildrive. There are no rubber bushes on a H5.
Yes. two of them.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 13:32   #384
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,592
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chala View Post
It makes you wonder why a new kind is necessary if the old one is that reliable?
The old one aren't that reliable. That's why Brunton's had to redesign them.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 14:04   #385
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,735
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chala View Post
Could you elaborate on the difference between the old kind and the new kind? It makes you wonder why a new kind is necessary if the old one is that reliable?
Old kind had water-lubricated bearings. New kind you have to grease every time you haul out.

FastBottoms is confused about the design evolution of Bruntons. There was a run of props with bad locking washers which allowed a nut to back off and so a blade to be thrown. There was a recall for this. There is nothing wrong in principle with water lubricated bearings -- your cutless bearing is water lubricated, and it carries vastly more stress than the blade bearings of an Autoprop, which don't spin around continuously like a cutless bearing, but just turn a little to allow the blades to feather.

All good engineered products evolve with time, experience, etc. Would you ask -- "What was so wrong with the DC3, that they had to go an design the 707?" Or "What was so wrong with the E39 BMW, that they had to come up with the E60? Makes you wonder . . . " A really strange question, IMHO.

There are plenty of good props, for anyone who doesn't like, for any reason, the Autoprop. Bruntons don't even have a monopoly on self-pitching props since Maxprop came out with the Ecowind, which I bet is a really great prop. The biggest drawback of Autoprops is that they droop a blade when they are feathered, creating the highest drag when feathered of any feathering or folding prop. This the tradeoff for the ingenious simplicity which allows Autoprops to be made without any springs or gears at all. This tradeoff makes it a poor choice for racers, or for catamarans, probably. If the Ecowind doesn't suffer from this (and it has springs, so I bet it doesn't) I would consider switching myself, although on my particular boat, it is not all that noticeable.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 14:12   #386
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,735
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Mission-critical? Well, that's only the auxiliary engine, so perhaps not.

But if it were mission critical and you planned to send it home for re-education every year, you do have a spare prop of some kind aboard, yes?
My first two sailboats had no engines of any kind, so sailing onto and off a dock or a mooring is not an unfamiliar experience for me. Nevertheless, I would never want to be without engine power on my present boat, which weighs 25 tons. Losing mechanical propulsion would be a serious situation, like for many cruisers, and I would not put out to sea without working mechanical propulsion. The idea of "auxiliary" propulsion is a bit outdated, I think.

Therefore, of course I carry a spare prop, as everyone should who has feathering or folding props with moving -- read, breakable -- parts. I was sailing in the Windward Islands some years ago when my chartered catamaran threw the blade of one of its Flexofold props. Any feathering or folding prop can break.

I don't send my prop off for service every year. It would be pretty hard since I sail year round and don't usually haul out for more than an hour at a time. Every three to five years is enough. If you have a Maxprop, or Varifold, or other prop with moving -- read, breakable -- parts, I highly recommend the same regime.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 14:21   #387
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,592
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
FastBottoms is confused about the design evolution of Bruntons. There was a run of props with bad locking washers which allowed a nut to back off and so a blade to be thrown. There was a recall for this. There is nothing wrong in principle with water lubricated bearings -- your cutless bearing is water lubricated, and it carries vastly more stress than the blade bearings of an Autoprop, which don't spin around continuously like a cutless bearing, but just turn a little to allow the blades to feather.
No, FastBottoms is not confused about the design evolution of this prop and is here to tell you that the water-lubricated bearings in the Autoprop have nothing in common with water-lubricated cutless bearings, other than the fact that they are water lubricated. Cutless bearings have a close enough tolerance that fouling organisms cannot enter. The same cannot be said for the ridiculously wide-open bearing races on the Autoprop. And if you'd ever had to brace your feet on the underside of a boat and attempt to force a fouled Autoprop blade into motion, you'd understand what I'm talking about.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 21:53   #388
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,321
Re: Autoprop ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
There is nothing wrong in principle with water lubricated bearings -- your cutless bearing is water lubricated, and it carries vastly more stress than the blade bearings of an Autoprop, which don't spin around continuously like a cutless bearing, but just turn a little to allow the blades to feather.
I do not see it that way. The stress on a cutless bearing are small and mainly due to gravity (weight of the shaft, prop and accessory (shaft zinc, rope cutter, etc)), prop walk (lateral force), water turbulences. The main force of propelling forward or backward is taken by the engine, gearbox or a trust drive (aquadrive, etc) and their respective mounts and the prop. In a moveable blades prop configuration the main force of propelling forward or backward must also be carried by the blades bearings. In an Autoprop, the design must allow for the blades to turn freely under full load. For this to be achieved, it looks like that the designer decided to shoulder the Taper Roller Bearings (6) with a Thrust Race Bearing (9). It is possible that the use of grease is there to help prevent corrosion of the many parts of the prop, my guess. As for “continuous spin versus a little turn” see False brinelling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
chala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 02:34   #389
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,936
Images: 1
Re: Autoprop ?

I'll let you guys know how I like the Ecowind. I'm mounting one later this spring

__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2013, 02:41   #390
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Thailand
Boat: Custom 50' aluminum cruising cat
Posts: 19
Re: Autoprop ?

Hi I have autoprops on a SD50 drive on my cat. Recently one failed after less than 400 hours leaving that engine with no drive - the rubber insert failed. About a thousand dollars to repair from Brunton and they refused to answer any questions about the failure. Plus haulout, shipping and 6 weeks lost. Also the zinc anodes can fail quickly if the thin area around the screws dissolves. I am happy with the performance but my pal is a dealer for many props and says the Max props are much more reliable but not easy to get the pitch right. If another one fails I am taking them off and switching. Very disappointed....
__________________

__________________
Shamancat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Autoprop Propeller wunscot Classifieds Archive 7 16-01-2010 13:16
Autoprop - Used Value Conch Cruzer Monohull Sailboats 4 30-07-2009 18:11
Used Autoprop For Sale Conch Cruzer Classifieds Archive 0 27-05-2009 05:15
H5 AutoProp Hub markpj23 Classifieds Archive 0 08-03-2009 13:45



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.