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Old 17-12-2007, 21:26   #181
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Welcome to the new world as dictated by environmentalists!!

Regards,

TJ
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Old 18-12-2007, 02:26   #182
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He will be meaning the Anti-fould crap that gets removed. Many marinas etc are now requiring the mess to be captured and disposed of properly. It will most likely get pumped out by a trcuk, taken to a facility where is gets pumped down a pipe and out into the sea :-)
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Old 18-12-2007, 09:30   #183
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In Oregon and Washington when boats are pressured washed after being lifted out of the water the water and debris is collected and disposed of off site. Most marinas recycle the water by filtering it and re-using it. The idea behind all this is the toxic bottom paint being "bad" for the environment. Maybe it is, but if it's bad to wash it off the hull why isn't it equally bad to have it on the hull sitting in the water in the first place?

In our marina we have a large sea lion population. No one thinks a thing about Sea Lion poop or pee; however if I pee in the water Lord help me an environmentalist will have a heart attack and I'd be thrown in jail. Now think what a whale can do! No one seems to care about that either. What an interesting world we live in!

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Old 18-12-2007, 09:39   #184
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If there were 6 Billion whales in the world, heading for 10 Billion, we would probably have to think about restricting their 'activities' too....
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Old 18-12-2007, 10:04   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
He will be meaning the Anti-fould crap that gets removed. Many marinas etc are now requiring the mess to be captured and disposed of properly. It will most likely get pumped out by a trcuk, taken to a facility where is gets pumped down a pipe and out into the sea :-)

lol would be even funnier if it wasn't likely to be so true

seer
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Old 18-12-2007, 12:25   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachts66 View Post
if it's bad to wash it off the hull why isn't it equally bad to have it on the hull sitting in the water in the first place?
It is just as bad. But boatyards fell under the Federal gun before boat owners or hull cleaners. Boatyards are required to control discharges. Boat owners and hull cleaners are not, although that may change.

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In our marina we have a large sea lion population. No one thinks a thing about Sea Lion poop or pee; however if I pee in the water Lord help me an environmentalist will have a heart attack and I'd be thrown in jail. Now think what a whale can do! No one seems to care about that either.
Human waste is a source of human pathogens. Waste from the marine animals is not.
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Old 08-01-2008, 07:40   #187
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Ok I have read the entire thread and have to reply. I have had an Autopilot on my 39ft Beneteau for 5 years and have worked with Steve Armitage from AB Marine USA. I have put 700hrs on this prop and give you my opinion based on Storm conditions, motor sailing, maneuvering and having the blades changed to accommodate a Yanmar 3JH4E 40hp motor with a different rotating shaft.

1. I Motor sail at a lower RPM with far less noise and fuel consumption.
2. It backs Straighter.
3. It performed perfectly in heavy sea ways.
4. I can motor at a higher speed with less RPM (less noise)
5. Steve Armitage from AB Marine very prompt and very knowledgeable.
6. Yanmar recomends if running at a low rpm for a long distance (below 2000rpm) run the engine to full throttle every 2hrs. I usually run at 2200 to 2400 rpm 7knts at 2200rpm compared to 2600 rpm with my fixed prop (noisey).

I am sorry that I can not give a jump on the band wagon with a negative response but these are my observations with my boat.

One negative response: very expensive.
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Old 08-01-2008, 08:16   #188
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Thanks David. Just what I was looking for, some other experiences.
What you describe is just what Brunton's describe so, although I remain puzzled by our (brief) experience, but I do accept that there are significant benefits to 'Autoprop' installations.
700 hrs in five years is not a high usage but you are clearly committed to Autoprop's for noise (mainly) and engine wear. I suspect those limited by time or having a longish run to open water would particluarly appreciate the differences.
As I reported the boat owner was in touch with Brunton as he was concerned they were not operating correctly. They certainly behaved very well in manouvreing classes the next morning. I'll try to find out more.
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Old 08-01-2008, 13:08   #189
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Autoprop more news soon

Dear Sailors

For those following this thread I expect to put my hanse 531 back on the water wearing back the AUTOPROP with a newly refited shaft and strut bearing in two or three weeks.

IŽll promise to post my experience and trials and my final decision on keeping the AUTOPROP or shipping it back to the factory.

Jose

ZY ZEN
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Old 08-01-2008, 13:47   #190
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MY OPINION ON YOUR POST

DEAR ELEVEN

I just read your post and.... as I have lived a similar experience recently with a GORI PROP last November I have thought I can help to clarify this issue.

We have been susprised by a sudden gale in Cap Ferrat last November reading peaks of 35 to 38 knots. I started the engine and put bow to the wind to lower the main.

I was socked to see 0,5 knots GPS speed at 2400 rpm. And the seas were just forming up!

The Gori was probably engaged in overdrive mode but this was the last of my worries in that moment.

I had to motor head to the wind to get a coast shelter in another situation in my old boat 50 HP volvo perkings 10 tonn displcement and 3 blade folding volvo. In 35 knots of wind we average 2,6 knots but we were heading 4 to 6 meter waves.

Yes improper prop shift is probably an issue here, but the heavy weather motor performance on many production yachts is very dissaponiting and they look to be designed just to motor in calm seas in optimal conditions.

Dont ask boat buliders they will reply.........oh you shouldnŽt be there!!

So tell your skipper he should not to buy a GORI PROP to fix the heavy weather poor motoring of his yacht!

SY ZEN






Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven View Post
Brunton's:
Just had my first two sailing days (ever) was Dec 3/4 2007 on a Broadblue fitted with Brunton's.
Against a force seven towards eight and a strong tide, confused but moderate sea, they seemed to get totally confused. There was reving as if out of water, there was very poor upwind motoring and they are off my list as being safe, let alone an enhancement, until proven otherwise.
We were (four of us) led by a Yacht Master's trainer who owned and frequently sailed a Bavaria in these waters (off Portsmouth UK) but, from others comments, failed to make the best of a Cat's performance so we failed to make Cowes from Chichester and eventually diverted into Portsmouth because we couldn't motor sail into the combination of wind and tide. Is this where others have had problems with the Bruton's. The boat was about 5 tonnes had two 20Hp diesels that were running at 2400 to 3000 revs as we struggled to make half an knot over the ground.
Skipper reckoned the tide was a half knot and the wind speed showed 25 to 29 kn peaking at 34 a couple of times. I, from reading, expected a cat to make 6 to 8 knots with the angle off the wind chosen to maintain that speed with a reasonable progress to windward. We were instructed to hold 40 to 50 off the wind and failed to get a stable run above 5 knots (no power). Rudder was inadequate to hold the course with veering off sluugish when too close and the boat swinging into wind as soon as hull speed picked up at 50 off.
It hasn't put me off by any means but it has demonstrated just how important performance is when the going gets tough. And that means the abilty to perform adequately in tough going.
Skipper was taking this boat round Kent to the London boat show in Jan but now wants a lift out to examine the props for problems.
Is this worth while or should he change to designed for purpose fixed blade props and let them spin when sailing? Or is there an easily rectified fault?
Back up motor for lee shore - USELESS in that configuration and weather. dangerous because though we were lucky we weren't in a lee shore position.
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Old 09-01-2008, 01:13   #191
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So 'Jose R' balances 'David K'. I suspect there are all sorts of issues here.
First a boat manufacturer will want to fit a prop that gives maximum speed in flat conditions so it demonstrates better. That should mean highish revs at full power and if your engine over revs then the prop is too small (or you need a three blader). Same for slow revs. Prop pitch is also a factor, too coarse and the prop can't work properly, too fine and you can't spin the prop fast enough.
BUT motoring in calm water is a bonus, the motor is there to get you out of trouble.
Do you want a prop that can pull you AND another similar boat along (or you off a lee shore) in bad weather. Then try towing a similar boat. Theory says that in flat water your towing speed should be two thirds of your solo speed. If it less than half then you don't have the push you'll need one day. That can be due to too small or too coarse a prop. Again seek sound advice from three companies.
And make the towing test part of your commissioning trials, it's a fairly cheap and easy fix when your in harbour and the old prop makes a working spare but a plastic spare is lighter.
Engine power is not a factor in this test unless you can only tow at less than three knots.
If you are concerned send off the details to three prop makers and seek advice.
Incidentally Autoprop's etc should love this test because, like an auto gearbox, they set them selves for most efficient thrust position.
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Old 16-01-2008, 06:59   #192
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Eleven

As a Uk 'prospective' boat owner, you may be interested to know that there are MANY very happy Autoprop owners in the UK that dont seem to show up on this forum.

I dont know why: is it that happy owners are out sailing? Is sales support better in UK (so you get the right prop more often)?

Anyhow, try forums at ybw.com for other opinions.
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Old 16-01-2008, 08:15   #193
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AutoProp followup.

I believe you might be right that sales support is better in the UK. I felt that was really where we were let down. Someone went to a book and looked at the engine and what it should do, not at the system, engine shaft, shaft length, apperature, and sisterships. Autoprop actually informed me that they didn't know the sisterships that had an Autoprop from them and I had to do my own research. Unfortunately, buyer beware is still the key word. I always try to give top line business' the benefit of the doubt but in this case I felt mislead. Further in my dealing with first the US distributor then the UK one I felt they stonewalled for a time and it is partially because of this forum they did anything at all. I am giving you my feelings and my experience. From the time I first identifying the problem (taking the boat to it's home berth after splashing) to the time of resolution took almost 9 months. I don't believe that is an acceptable standard. Once I had identified the problem they had me run further test and asked further qsts I believe should have ben asked initially before the prop was even purchased. Three important question hear would have been what shaft size / length, how old are the engine mounts, and what is your transmission? The did have the shaft size and then through all the discussions with them tall me that for that engine and prop combo it should be larger. Duh! Although I'm happy with the prop I discovered that I also need to add a prop lock. Yes it is in their literature but a little buried IMHO. I had talked to the US reps at the Miami show twice and never, never heard him mention this. Nor is it in the info I gave to them about my transmission. They asked several times over the course of 6 - 8 months about the transmission even asking for the serial number (but never initially). So now I'm hauling to add a SHAFT LOK INC..
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Old 16-01-2008, 08:40   #194
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I also own an 3 blade Autoprop but I've not yet tested it seriously. But it does solve the problem I had: propwake going astern. In cross wind situation, my boat is unmanageable until it acquire some speed backing up. I was contemplating installing an expensive bow thruster with all the drag and trouble associated with it. The auto adjustment of pitch is really interesting. Hull speed is reached at much lower rpm, and punching into head seas is improved, as is motor sailing. Some drawbacks though: like a folding prop it need some rpm to start moving from a standstill. Not unlike an airliner starting to move on tarmac. But once moving you have to pull back the rpm. And vibrations: The blades are heavy, and the shaft alignment must be perfect. Or else... I had a Maxprop on an other boat, ant it was very good with also some drawbacks : Failing to fold some times, and failing to open once( I hit the boat in from of me... not funny). but the most important drawback: less performance: symmetrical blades not as efficient.
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Old 16-01-2008, 08:43   #195
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And this guy seems to think USA distibutors DO have the information:

I've been saying it for 8 years, now - I LOVE my Autoprop...
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