Are folding props worth it?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Fixed sucks in reverse.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That has not been my experience.

[Jim Cate]

I have also motored from SF to BC, around 1500 nm.

(sorry, can't help myself)

Stu, perhaps without the bucket you could have sailed some of those miles...

im

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
With a fixed prop you can either lock it in reverse thereby using the transmission as a break (which both major manufacturers say not to do) or let it free wheel. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But that's not quite correct:


Hurth says:


Tech Wiki – Catalina 34 International Association

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

(sorry, can't help myself)

Stu, perhaps without the bucket you could have sailed some of those miles...

im

Haha. Thanks. The entire voyage was planned with NO wind as the best bet.


I know you know the Pacific Coast.


And you've most likely seen my record of the trip.


Only way for me to get there was harbor hopping. I used George Benson's model.



Of course, others have done it differently.


OMG, you can sail upwind?!?

[pbmaise]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Not if you have a good folder and well matched to engine and transmission. Quite the contrary in many cases. See results of objective tests referenced in various posts above.

And we've had folders and feathering for some 32 years and around 140000 miles with none of the issues you suggest.

Jim

Point accepted. When I say my fuel economy was so much better with a fixed prop, I neglected to mention the diameter of my fixed prop was so much bigger than my folding. The reason the fixed was so much bigger is I had a propshop add almost two inches onto each blade. Obviously, that was not also done to my Max Prop.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

But that's not quite correct:


Hurth says:


Tech Wiki – Catalina 34 International Association

I believe some Yanmar transmissions it’s allowable to lock transmissions in reverse too. My KBW20 which I believe is a Hurth made by Kanzaki, they say it’s a joint venture, maybe it was.

I believe it’s the newer come type of transmissions that you are prohibited from being in gear with the engine off?
I don’t even know if the clutch type of transmissions are still made or not?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

Point accepted. When I say my fuel economy was so much better with a fixed prop, I neglected to mention the diameter of my fixed prop was so much bigger than my folding. The reason the fixed was so much bigger is I had a propshop add almost two inches onto each blade. Obviously, that was not also done to my Max Prop.

So, was it a folding prop as originally stated or a Max prop, which is a feathering design? If the latter, it is easier to understand the improvement, for Max props and all other feathering props have flat, untwisted and rather inefficient blade design (as discussed upthread) and don't offer great fuel economy as a result.

Jim

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

Secondly that noise when sailing helped me know the speed without getting out of my bunk. I knew within a quarter knot vessel speed just by the sound.

well that's a first for that reason I've read

[Lewisail]

Are you interested in selling your PDQ?

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Mike,much as I respect your opinions, I can't agree with this or your previous post.



Jim

Jim,
My observations were from a whole bunch of fixed props, half a dozen Max props, and two folding props (I think they were martec).
My experience with the two folding props (two blades semi triangular that had a hinge on the hub end) was not good, if they were a bit fouled with barnacles or weed it seems one would not unfold without revving the engine up with a bunch of vibration until the other blade came unstuck, and seemed to always take a lot of throttle to get them to do anything in astern. Also, one tends to get used to giving Dead Slow Astern to slow abit when approaching a dock etc. with the folding prop, it had little to no effect. These were "racing props" and honestly, they would not move the boat well.

I only had these two boats for a short time, one had an old MD2B and the other had an Atromic 4. Neither were good boats so it is possible I am biased about them for the wrong reasons.

The Max props, I liked because I crossed oceans with them and loved the low drag, (not dragging a bucket), no wear on the transmission, (you could turn the shaft by hand while under sail). I could play with the pitch adjustments in the water to tune them to the boat, three of them I had line cutters on, but the other two or three I never fouled a line (probably just lucky) and because of the rounded blade tip sargasso weed etc would not tend to catch on them.
I did have to send one in for overhaul once as the blades seemed a bit sloppy (side to side movement), it was price but it came back polished like piece of jewelry, I hated to put it on and get it scratched!)

So Jim, I believe you have far more experience than I with folding props, and if you say you are happy with them, I will defer to your opinion and not condemn them as they must not be the same design as the two I have had poor experience with.

Fair winds to you and Ann, and thanks for correcting me.

Mike

[Zzmeyer]

Each type of prop has their pluses and minuses. Within each category there are some that are better than others. For example, I had two folding Martec props. Neither could back my boats. On the other hand, my Flexofold backs nicely although not as nicely as my Maxprops.

[Jerry Woodward]

Originally Posted by Lewisail

Are you interested in selling your PDQ?

No, thanks. We're finishing outfitting her for more extended cruising and plan to take her to the Caribbean. She now has a watermaker, N2K electronics, AIS, upgraded autopilot, high output alternator, and new sails. The props will be one last major upgrade.

This has been a great thread with lots of great information, thanks to everyone. Right now I'm leaning towards the flexofold props. If I can get better sailing performance AND less chance of snagging those @#$% crab pots, then it will be worth it. I emailed the folks in Denmark and they responded within a few hours. They have been very responsive to all my questions. They suggested that I could go with a two blade or a three blade. I'm thinking the three blade would have significantly better motoring performance. One concern is that the pitch is not adjustable, but FOF said they would swap the blades for me if the pitch turned out to be wrong. Nice!