Where do we flag our boat?

[med]

Originally Posted by ingonoka

Wouldn't that also mean that a Dutch citizen living in Dubai would be allowed to register their boat on the German ship registry, but a German living in Dubai (e.g. me) would not be allowed to do the same? I cannot imagine that this is what they had in mind. I haven't read many legal texts, but if that us the usual quality of legal wording in German laws, I finally figured out why they need so many civil servants.

Don't know. Germany legal stuff is incredibly contorted. (Just a small example about you have a paragraph which says clearly Germans only and then later on another paragraph which says where the earlier paragraph said German that also applies to Foreigners under certain conditions....)

I am British and moved from France to Germany with my French registered Citroen car. I had the same kind of issues in getting it registered, with a real run around involving customs (I needed an import certificate), the Wohnsitzmelderamt (place where you declare where you live to get a piece of paper which says you live there), TuV (kind of check of conformity and safety), and the car registration place. You can't get the car registered without the TuV, you can't to the TuV without the registration document etc etc.

However it involved several visits to each of them to get some piece of paper which would allow the other one to give you a piece of paper so you go back to the first one to get the piece of paper you really wanted which is needed by the next one in the chain.

I was warned by the car registration place the the conformity check would be very difficult as the car would have to be changed. I asked what needs to changed? They said lots of things such as the yellow headlights. Any way I removed the head lamp bulbs and took off the French yellow thing and put the bulbs back in and that was all that was needed.

[BandB]

Repeating my advice. Get an agent expert in the area you're thinking of. A good agent will know all the ins and outs and be able to warn you of issues you might not otherwise find out about. They've handled thousands and many far more complicated than your situation. This is one time paying a professional is worth it.

If I wasn't going to register in the country I was in, then I'd look at flags of convenience. But there may be another country, not normally thought of, that holds advantages.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by KDH

Sorry Seymore's info is incorrect. Many countries, including Canada, allow permanent residents to register their boats in the country of RESIDENCE. Citizenship is secondary in that case. For instance, as a permanent resident of Canada, I could register the boat there and never sail it (or import it) in Canadian waters. The boat does not have to be documented in the US just because that person is a citizen of the US. I have seen many EU boats owned by Europeans registered in other European countries (a lot of boats owned by Polish sailors here in Spain for example). As a EU resident, you would not be able to use the boat in Europe without incurring the importation and VAT charges if you document the boat in the US. There are in fact specific rules governing that. I think that you should consider registering in the Azores or Canaries which both have special VAT rates. The advantage to registering the boat in Europe means provided the boat is new enough to have a CE rating, you will not have to pay the VAT twice. Unless you plan to move to the US I see no benefit to documenting there. Check noonsite.com for links to the actual documents from the EU.

All info provided re Canada and US is incorrect ! This is my business I am a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Measurer and deal Canadian Licensed and Registered boats and US State registered and Federal Documented vessels on a daily basis. In Canada only citizens and Canadian Corporations may register vessels. This is precisely the same in the US although the US terminology is a litle different. Canadian licesed vessel = US state registered vessel and Canadian Registered Vessel = US Documented Vessel.

So to the OP your simplest option as US citizens is to document the boat in the US. Neither you nor the boat ever has to actually go there. No US taxes or duties are payable until the boat enters US waters.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

All info provided re Canada and US is incorrect ! This is my business I am a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Measurer and deal Canadian Licensed and Registered boats and US State registered and Federal Documented vessels on a daily basis. In Canada only citizens and Canadian Corporations may register vessels. This is precisely the same in the US although the US terminology is a litle different. Canadian licesed vessel = US state registered vessel and Canadian Registered Vessel = US Documented Vessel.

So to the OP your simplest option as US citizens is to document the boat in the US. Neither you nor the boat ever has to actually go there. No US taxes or duties are payable until the boat enters US waters.

And for those non citizens who start talking about circumventing that with a Corporation and all the other things, I only ask "Why?" Don't complicate your life. Take the simplest path. I live in Florida. I document US and register Florida. I have one boat registered in Florida and use tax paid in Florida and I've owned it 6 months and it's still a few months away from making it to Florida the first time.

I heard all the arguments of registering off shore. But really they all centered around chartering which we don't intend to do.

[ingonoka]

Originally Posted by BandB

And for those non citizens who start talking about circumventing that with a Corporation and all the other things, I only ask "Why?" Don't complicate your life. Take the simplest path. I live in Florida. I document US and register Florida. I have one boat registered in Florida and use tax paid in Florida and I've owned it 6 months and it's still a few months away from making it to Florida the first time.

I heard all the arguments of registering off shore. But really they all centered around chartering which we don't intend to do.

In my case the simplest path is unfortunately not obvious. I live in Dubai, but don't want my boat registered in the Middle East (not sure whether it is even possible). I am a citizen of Germany, but cannot register my boat there because I am not a resident of Germany. I could create a company just for registration, but I had to do this for a small plane I bought in Malaysia, and it was a real pain ... So, right now I believe Holland is the place to go, but it is not easy to get reliable information about Dutch regulation either.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by ingonoka

In my case the simplest path is unfortunately not obvious. I live in Dubai, but don't want my boat registered in the Middle East (not sure whether it is even possible). I am a citizen of Germany, but cannot register my boat there because I am not a resident of Germany. I could create a company just for registration, but I had to do this for a small plane I bought in Malaysia, and it was a real pain ... So, right now I believe Holland is the place to go, but it is not easy to get reliable information about Dutch regulation either.

Why not one of the many flags of convenience? I'm assuming cost is the issue, but there's some cost wherever you register and they could make things much simpler. The majority of all boats and ships in the world are registered in one of them.

[ingonoka]

I am not familiar with the term. I assume port of convenience would be something like Panama? Is there a list of those?


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[BandB]

Originally Posted by ingonoka

I am not familiar with the term. I assume port of convenience would be something like Panama? Is there a list of those?


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Yes, there is a list.

Here is a link. List of flags of convenience - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice many from Germany choose to register in flags of convenience. Especially in Liberia, Antigua and Barbuda, and Marshall Islands.

If I was planning on documenting with a flag of convenience, I'd choose the least likely to be controversial.

[CHAZ]

ingonoka I think that for your situation the Belgium flag is what you are looking for

Belgium flag : Boating registration in Belgium

And who ever knows the difference between a Belgium and a German flag

Pashenkova, as a US citizen and German resident you should have the choice between the two.


Martin

[BandB]

Originally Posted by CHAZ

ingonoka I think that for your situation the Belgium flag is what you are looking for

Belgium flag : Boating registration in Belgium

And who ever knows the difference between a Belgium and a German flag

Pashenkova, as a US citizen and German resident you should have the choice between the two.


Martin

Your link doesn't go to Belgium

[CHAZ]

Originally Posted by BandB

Your link doesn't go to Belgium

Thanks BandB

Home | Shipregistration.be

hope this helps

Martin

[ingonoka]

Well, I was hoping to apply Dutch law on my vessel. There a few activities that are legal in Amsterdam ...


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[BandB]

Originally Posted by ingonoka

Well, I was hoping to apply Dutch law on my vessel. There a few activities that are legal in Amsterdam ...


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You better reacquaint yourself with both Dutch law and with maritime laws.

[CHAZ]

Originally Posted by ingonoka

Well, I was hoping to apply Dutch law on my vessel. There a few activities that are legal in Amsterdam ...

You should be good for the Dutch flag too, but never forget the 11th commandment:

"Don't let 'em catch you !"

while living by Dutch law in Dubai

Martin

[Arthur Garfield]

Gibraltar is my first thought.Additionally, one must consider what is OP aim?
Costs,location....
Being that VAT has been paid a big tax hit no longer exists.So, I think ease of flagging would be next.All countries welcome vessel registration for the $.What is the aim of OP??