To Cert or not to Cert, that is the Question

[Ex-Calif]

Just funnin' ya Ann but isn't it ironic that you reckon she needs the course to prove herself yet it' unfair to assume she is the one puking?

Men don't need certs but women do? Men don't have a magic boat driving gene AFAIK.

[Scottuk]

Hesmysnowman, my sense is that you are suffering from a 'fear of the unknown'. I don't think classroom educataion/certification will get you over the fear. Experience will but, hopefully, not entirely. I believe some fear is good.

As I see it there are two ways to overcome it. There is crewing on other people's boats or taking an 'on the water' cruising course. I would suggest the latter because you are more likely to have a good experience. Crewing on other people's boats who are basically strangers on longer trips can have its drawbacks.

If you do the 'on the water' course try to find one that will give you some night time experience. I think it would also be helpful if the skipper were female. I assume, from reading your post, your wife as having more reservations.

As other have said, build on your experience when you start cruising. Start small and work your way up. This takes time but you need to actively cruise to effectively gain the experience.

The ultimate goal for staying safe is for you and your wife to be experienced co-skippers.

[Capt Phil]

Having taught both sexes, the learning process is different. I would strongly suggest that ms. Hesmysnowman take a woman's sailing course offered by women for women. It will reduce any threatening/competitive potential of taking a hands-on sailing course with men and women or with husband and wife together. Don't ask me why that dynamic gets set up, but it does. Those courses can be real confidence builders.
Additionally, once she has gained some confidence, they could hire a skipper to assist in their initial passages who was able and willing to impart his/her knowledge to both of them. Phil

[JPA Cate]

Capt. Phil,

Nicely said!

Ex Calif: No, I don't think either men or women have either the boat driving gene or the sensible seamanship gene. But I do think a landlubber woman with a husband who already sails will serve herself -- and her husband -- by taking Capt. Phil's advice.

Ann

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Capt. Phil,

Nicely said!

Ex Calif: No, I don't think either men or women have either the boat driving gene or the sensible seamanship gene. But I do think a landlubber woman with a husband who already sails will serve herself -- and her husband -- by taking Capt. Phil's advice.

Ann

+1 Ann and Phil, I have occasionally taught husband and wife in M5 or coxwains courses. Its usually worth separating them for many of the practicals, otherwise whatever dynamic they have seems to take over. Its often amazing how different both of them are when they are on their own. I really take my hat off to couples that do these courses. It shows a determination to learn that sets them up for the future, even though the courses are really aimed at comercial power driven vessels.

Many years ago my mother, who was already a tough and competant sailor with many long coastal passages around New Zealand under her belt in the days before good weather info and GPS, did a sailing course for women run by Penny Whiting. She really enjoyed it and came back much more confident and skilled. I learnt long ago that trying to teach my partners sailing was doomed to fail. Something about different relationship between teacher and student that doesnt always fit with a otherwise heathy relationship.

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[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

+1 Ann and Phil, I have occasionally taught husband and wife in M5 or coxwains courses. Its usually worth separating them for many of the practicals, otherwise whatever dynamic they have seems to take over. Its often amazing how different both of them are when they are on their own. I really take my hat off to couples that do these courses. It shows a determination to learn that sets them up for the future, even though the courses are really aimed at comercial power driven vessels.

Many years ago my mother, who was already a tough and competant sailor with many long coastal passages around New Zealand under her belt in the days before good weather info and GPS, did a sailing course for women run by Penny Whiting. She really enjoyed it and came back much more confident and skilled. I learnt long ago that trying to teach my partners sailing was doomed to fail. Something about different relationship between teacher and student that doesnt always fit with a otherwise heathy relationship.

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Ben,

You got that right! I'm not sure if I'm right about it, but what I think is that with husband and wife teams, one partner is dependent on the other's positive feedback. So, with husband and wife, if the other guy thinks you messed up, it's devastating; whereas, if it's not your partner, emotionally, you (he or she) gets to recover from feeling stupid (which may be humiliating in itself) , and go on and learn. This kind of dynamic need not be there, but IMO, is often there in cases where they come to the water later in life.

Ann

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Ben,

You got that right! I'm not sure if I'm right about it, but what I think is that with husband and wife teams, one partner is dependent on the other's positive feedback. So, with husband and wife, if the other guy thinks you messed up, it's devastating; whereas, if it's not your partner, emotionally, you (he or she) gets to recover from feeling stupid (which may be humiliating in itself) , and go on and learn. This kind of dynamic need not be there, but IMO, is often there in cases where they come to the water later in life.

Ann

Ann, that absolutley right, When I have tried to teach my partners I found it hard to get the training targeted right, either I was too condesending by starting at the basics, or I missed steps and confused them. Either way it wasn't good. I think the worst was when I let my partner and her friend sail the boat home by themselves as I read a book.They did a great job, sailing off the anchor but right at the end I had to step in at one point just before a crash gybe. She never forgave me, I had embarresed her infront of her friend and I think she thought I was disappointed in her (and I was, in truth). BAD situation... Let some poor instructor take the brunt of your partners fury, embarresment and uncertanties. In a more structured environment you can start at the basics and those that know them already aren't offended, any mistakes are kept in the class and labeled as learning oportunities. The (hopefully) equal but delicate power balance between couples can be upset when one assumes the teacher role.



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[Capt Phil]

All fine points made by Ann, Ben and others. When I tried to teach my partner (now wife) I underestimated how much she had picked up just doing or being aboard a cruising boat and watching others make mistakes and do thing correctly. It was not a good experience for either of us and taught me that an uninvolved, dispassionate instructor was a better alternative. She became an outstanding boat handler, navigator and guru when it came to varnishing and brightwork prep. So much so that professionals in the marina would seek her advice. I took great delight in listening to her explain the finer points of preparing a teak toerail for varnishing to a guy who was probably getting $50/hour for doing the work! Far better than I could do...
Our experience of living and working on boats together brought us closer and was more fulfilling than anything else over the last 20 odd years. I hope that the couple who are starting their adventure afloat have the same experience that we did! Phil

[Cuttyhunk]

I'm pretty much self-taught, started sailing at age 11; nobody else in my family sailed. When I was in my twenties, I lived in northern California for a time. There was a sailing club that had ASA classes on San Francisco Bay. I joined the club and took a couple of classes (this was 1986 and ASA was just getting started). I learned a lot about wind and reefing in SF Bay!

Anyhow, fast forward to today. I have lived aboard, done the Caribbean, ABYC master tech, etc., and am primarily interested in teaching marine skills to women.

I'm planning to teach at a local ASA school (Narragansett Sailing) that also teaches diesel maintenance, and electrical, and offers women-only sections of all their courses. They want me to get certified as an ASA instructor, too, as they always need instructors. I have been reviewing the books and I have to say they are really good. You don't need a USCG license to teach the basic course in a sailboat with no engine, BTW. Since I will want to teach the higher level classes, too, I'm going to bite the bullet this fall and get the license.

I don't know about y'all, but I have found that self-study, for me (and I've done a lot of it) always leaves gaps. Taking courses can be fun and I'm looking forward to teaching. As an instructor, I always learn something new, too. To the OP: what is the downside?

[Capt Phil]

Good luck, Cuttyhunk... I wish you well. You sound very well suited to teach women sailing and boathandling. Sounds like you have a good balance of practical, hands-on experience and theoretical to impart to your students... cheers, Phil

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Having taught both sexes, the learning process is different. I would strongly suggest that ms. Hesmysnowman take a woman's sailing course offered by women for women. It will reduce any threatening/competitive potential of taking a hands-on sailing course with men and women or with husband and wife together. Don't ask me why that dynamic gets set up, but it does. Those courses can be real confidence builders.
Additionally, once she has gained some confidence, they could hire a skipper to assist in their initial passages who was able and willing to impart his/her knowledge to both of them. Phil

Touché. I thought it would be a great idea to have my wife and daughters take asa101 together. None of them could get out of their roles. My younger daughter used to enjoy sailing with me. Now she doesn't like it at all. My wife is still indifferent and my old er daughter still enjoys it. Perhaps they should have been separated.


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[Ex-Calif]

Dave - Don't sweat it. Everyone is different. Some folks just don't have the "sailing gene."

For the fence-sitters, find out (if you can) what part of the sailing they do enjoy and see if you can arrange to maximize that. One of the best things I did for the youngins was add DVD players. They would be on deck for an hour or so after departure and then migrate to movies, take a nap etc.

For us it's about sailing the boat and so on. Others may be looking for the "Love Boat" cruise ship experience. You're the cruise director...