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Old 02-06-2008, 16:11   #16
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George
The reason I'm asking, A week or so ago, while I was scaning through the groups and channels, I happen to hear someone, asking directions in the area I know around the Sacramento area. I made contact with him and gave the info needed. I was then contacted by (more than one person) and informed that my "call-sign" was not recognisable in that frequency and not to use it again without the proper license.
Mine is right out of the box, and some of the channels are labeled for groups as "EC-NET", "EC-WTRW", "BAJANET", "CHUBASA", "SONRISA", "MANANA", "PAC_NET", "HAM-NET", ALASKA, and 4A throu 4C LTD. but also covers a hundred or so more channels or freuuencies
The manual does not go into any uasge, and only covers a small bit in the programing.
with the mode button it will change fron upper to lower, AM and AFS..
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Old 02-06-2008, 16:56   #17
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Well Randy, it really is up to you to make sure you have the proper license to transmit on the frequency your radio is tuned to. Marine/ham radio transceivers are not toys.
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Old 02-06-2008, 17:17   #18
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Well "Frz"
I'll admit that I have absoultly no experance with HAM bands or frequencies that are used, and the information on this thread WAS comming along really good and I was picking up some great links to work off of.
And to make a sarcastic remarks as you did.
I have learned something,
That if I ever hear you out hear in the deep blue, yelling for help,
I know how to turn the radio OFF!
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Old 02-06-2008, 18:51   #19
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Originally Posted by Beausoleil View Post
Guys,

It's not HAM. All caps usually denotes an acronym like SSB (single side band) or FCC (Federal Communications Commission). "Ham" is short for amateur, as in amateur radio operator, and the origins of the term "ham" are lost in the fog of history. Ham-fisted Morse-code operators in the glory days of the railroads. Hamming it up on the airwaves....

Please - don't capitalize "ham". It makes us 'hams' with Amateur Radio licenses wince...

Jon - KB1HTW, General class
Sorry...I'm a newbie HAM...uh...Ham
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Old 03-06-2008, 13:42   #20
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Randy:

My apologies. My 802 is an older model and was "locked out" of Ham frequencies and I had to "open" it.

You can go to the AARL web site and download a diagram showing all Ham frequencies at ARRLWeb: US Amateur Bands

Then just stay out of those bands.

Again, sorry if I mislead you.

Incidental in a REAL emergency you can legally operate on any darn frequency you need to get help and the Ham folks won't be climbing your case. They are a great resource when the defecation hits the revolving blades.

George
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Old 03-06-2008, 15:39   #21
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Randy,

I'm sure DeepFrz meant no disrespect, and I hope that you won't just turn your radio off if you hear him....or any other mariner in distress. That's contrary to the hundreds of years of maritime tradition....one always tries to be helpful to anyone in distress, whatever the reason.

Please DO follow the links, and continue on your learning curve. As noted above and as I know you understand, there's a lot to learn and you -- and only you -- are responsible for learning how to use the radio.

That said, I believe Icom and/or its dealers are treading very thin water by shipping your radio pre-programmed with ham frequencies and "opened up" without including clear lists of marine and ham frequencies (channels) with the radio. While I understand why they may do this -- you don't really want to get into the legal and regulatory morass that may underpin their decision -- at the very least they could have included a list of the marine ssb channels like most other manufacturers do, and like they do with their other marine rigs.

What to do? I think the best thing to do is what I've done for myself and what I do routinely for clients: I download and print out complete lists of the ITU marine frequencies, both duplex and simplex, and laminate these to carry next to the radio. Next, I program the radio(s) with the ham frequencies and others (e.g., BBC, NPR, and VOA broadcast frequencies, WWV, etc.), and I print out a list of this programming schema. This, too, is laminated and placed near the radio.

Having these lists close at hand allows you to (1) quickly jump to any pre-programmed frequency you wish; and (2) see all available marine channels, some of which may not be pre-programmed.

It should also help to keep you out of trouble, i.e., keep you from transmitting on channels/frequencies for which you are not licensed.

Bill
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Old 03-06-2008, 15:54   #22
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Ship's station license is not needed if

If you are not a commercial boat, not travelling to a foreign country (islands) according to FCC, a ships station license is not needed. I just got my ship's station license and it cost over $100.00, required because I was going to be transmitting in Bermuda. (foreign country).

Also, as someone else mentioned, in an emergency, an unlicensed operator can seek help on the radio without fear of breaking the law.

A license to operate the ships VHF radio is no longer needed in our country.

If you go to the FCC (Federal Communications) site you can find a lot of information but the ARRL (amatuer radio) website search engine, can likely provide more information than you'll have time to read this month..

Most new radio purchases include description for the "use frequencies" for the radios, you buy. Frequencies and their allowable use is normally included with in the "new radio" manual.

Frequencies are also published in books like "Chapmans" and various small boating guides. (and the ARRL website)

FCC will (for a small fee) grant a special category lifetime license to operate the ships radio if you simply go to their website, apply and pay a small fee. (no testing required)

Amateur radio operators are some of the most helpful people in the world if you need assistance. They are also charged to "self police" the radio waves, along with the FCC.
Some may let it go to their heads. SO if you happen to broadcast illegally they will tell you. Let them know nicely, it was unintentional and if they were rude, politely tell them so. Just my opinion.

Check it out with the authorities (FCC) to be prudent if you feel uneasy about something, but I think I am correct on this since I just went through the process.

Fair Winds

Pogo
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Old 03-06-2008, 16:13   #23
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Yes, but....

Pogo, et. al...

Yes, you don't need a ship's station license for a VHF radio used only in the U.S. and not used to contact foreign vessels in the U.S.

However, you certainly do need a ships station license, and an individual operators license, for a marine SSB radio, whether used only in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world.

Bill
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Old 03-06-2008, 22:47   #24
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You can read it all here;

FCC Radio Licenses - USCG Navigation Center

The Telecommunications Act of 1996 permits recreational boaters to have and use a VHF marine radio, EPIRB, and marine radar without having an FCC ship station license. Boaters traveling on international voyages, having an HF single sideband radiotelephone or marine satellite terminal, or required to carry a marine radio under any other regulation must still carry an FCC ship station license. For further information, see the FCC Ship Radio Stations Fact Sheet.
FCC Ship Station Licenses

Those not exempted by the Telecommunications Act of 1996 must still have an FCC ship station license. A ship station license application is made on FCC Form 605 accompanied with Form 159, available from local FCC Field Offices, by writing to the FCC, P.O. Box 1050, Gettysburg PA 17326, or by calling the FCC Forms Distribution Center at (202)418-3676 or the toll-free number (800) 418-FORM. Forms can also be obtained from most marine electronics dealers. You can call the FCC in Gettysburg, obtain information about marine radio licensing, radio interference, and other matters, at 1 800 322-1117. FCC Gettysburg's working hours are 8 AM to 4:30 PM. Click here for forms
When preparing FCC Form 159 ship radio station license, enter Fee Type Code PASR (blk 7).
Radios can be used immediately upon license application. The license is not transferable if a boat is sold or if the installed radio equipment is moved from one boat to another.

FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permits

The FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is required for boaters having an HF radiotelephone, for boaters having a VHF transceiver and traveling in foreign waters, or where fitting of a marine radio is required by law (e.g. on boats 20m long or larger). There is a fee for this lifetime permit, but no tests are required in applying for this license. An application is made on FCC Form 605 accompanied with Form 159, available from local FCC Field Offices or by writing to the FCC, P.O. Box 1050, Gettysburg PA 17326.


But don't stop by just reading this post, there is much more on the FCC website, if you have questions; they have answers.

Pogo
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:27   #25
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You can read it all here;

FCC Radio Licenses - USCG Navigation Center

The Telecommunications Act of 1996 permits recreational boaters to have and use a VHF marine radio, EPIRB, and marine radar without having an FCC ship station license. Boaters traveling on international voyages, having an HF single sideband radiotelephone or marine satellite terminal, or required to carry a marine radio under any other regulation must still carry an FCC ship station license. For further information, see the FCC Ship Radio Stations Fact Sheet.

Pogo
Pogo - I believe Bill is correct - parse that paragraph again. My interpretation is that you must have a station license if you travel internationally OR if you have an HF SSB. Not international AND SSB. Granted, I'm an engineer, not an English major - but that's what I see above.
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Old 04-06-2008, 22:28   #26
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Beau, I don't think I am in disagreement with Bill or you. I simply decided to copy the rules for all to see for themselves.

When I personally inquired of FCC, (as a licensed ham)
"Do I need a ships station license" ? The FCC originally acted as if I didn't need one. The FCC agent agreed, if I was taking the boat to a foreign Island AND had a HF radio, I would indeed need a ships station license.

It was a forgone conclusion, if I had a VHF transciever and a HF/SSB radio on board, some type of operators license was required for its use, and it could be the FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit, unless it was an emergency.

In the series of questions I was asked in order for FCC to determine if a ships station license was required;

Q. "Are you required to have a HF radio on your boat? A. No
Q. Are you a commercially use boat? A. No
Q. Are you going to a foreign nations port with a HF radio? A. Yes

"Then you need a "Ship's Station License" and that will be $162 dollars and it is good for ten years. It cannot be transferrred to another boat or to another individual." unquote

Even though I am licensed, I don't mean to hold myself out as an expert; so I copied "for all to see" and accuracy.



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Old 05-06-2008, 12:34   #27
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In the series of questions I was asked in order for FCC to determine if a ships station license was required;

Q. "Are you required to have a HF radio on your boat? A. No
Q. Are you a commercially use boat? A. No
Q. Are you going to a foreign nations port with a HF radio? A. Yes

"Then you need a "Ship's Station License"
I guess we'd have to go back and get an accurate reading of the FCC regulations, because there's a glaring hole in the question set above:"Q. Do you have an HF radio on your boat?"

Without that question, then the above directly contradicts (IMHO) the FCC text quoted by you earlier. Was the above exchange via telephone, or is it in the new online smart-agent that's supposed to tell you whether you need to file a Form 605. If the latter, it wouldn't be the first time a government website contradicts existing law/regulation (assuming my interpretation is correct).

What's the old saying? "I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken"?
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Old 05-06-2008, 16:33   #28
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U.S. flagged recreational vessels are not required to have a ship station license to carry a HF transmitter on-board. However, with two exceptions the use of the HF transmitter is not allowed. These exceptions are when the vessel is in distress or when it is necessary to assist another vessel that is in distress. Under these circumstances the HF transmitter can be used on any frequency and in any operating mode necessary to establish communications. This would obviously include ham and marine frequencies. The underlying principal of the FCC and USCG is that the safety of life and property at sea is paramount.

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Old 05-06-2008, 20:27   #29
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"Was the above exchange via telephone?"

Yes Beau, and a real live FCC person was on the other end, too.

Cheers

Pogo
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Old 05-06-2008, 21:18   #30
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I would not be guided by anything someone told me in a phone call, whether it's the FCC, the IRS, or any other government entity.

The regulations are clear: If you have and use a MF/HF radio (i.e., a marine SSB transceiver), you must obtain a ships station license and an appropriate operator's license, whether or not you go abroad. These licenses are required for operation even in the U.S., and in the waters of any foreign country. Such licenses are mandated by the ITU under international agreements.

You can read the precise wording here:
FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Licensing

Note the sentence which says, "Ships that use MF/HF single side-band radio, satellite communications, or telegraphy must continue to be licensed by the FCC."

Yes, the exceptions cited by Viking Sailor above are more or less correct. However, IMHO it's pretty stupid to carry an MF/HF marine radio and not be licensed to use it for its intended purpose, especially when the licensing is pretty simple.

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